Artanis P1, the cost is too steep

Co-op Missions Discussion
1

He desperately needs a different penalty, the cost increase is absolutely crippling on brutal when wave after wave of zealots are going to crash and burn and be unable to protect all two of the archons you can afford. I got so strapped for gas I just started massing zealots and using whirlwind to chunk down void thrasher health, we barely won that game. It’s especially galling given just how upgrade heavy chargelot/archon is, so you’re already dumping huge amounts of gas into something like 5 upgrades before we even start counting up to 3/3 and then to increase the gas cost of templar even more just kills the build outright.

There has to be a better negative for the build to have that doesn’t just cripple your ability to produce units, otherwise why bother even using it?

6 Likes
2

Try making units that are good for what you are doing. To kill thrashers I would use imortal/reaver, which are good at killing thrashers, not AoE units that are good at killing swarms.

4 Likes
3

3/3 is likely not worth it, just go for shields and let the abilities do the damage for you.

Using super Immortals, Psi Storm, and Phoenix seems to be the key to keeping your units alive (alongside well timed Shield Overcharge, of course). On the other side, Reavers now have effectively infinite scarabs so they are by far the best dps for fixed targets, with Storm and Whirlwind the best for units.

1 Like
4

I think I found your problem. Because p1 Artanis is mostly about spells you can be a little more slow about weapons, and unless it’s a REALLY long game against terran bio or something, you should not be wasting effort on armour upgrades.

In any case, the main strength of p1 Artanis is using zealot Templar to rip through waves with their AoE with relatively little amounts of army. Part of the key to this prestige is NOT dumping all your zealots in one place. Oftentimes (mostly as a result of Guardian Shell) 10 zealots can win a fight which will kill 30 zealots if you send them. So it’s better to cut loses and send only 10 zealots to maximise value from their invulnerable spinning act.

5

Here, an example of the relative cost efficiency of p1 Artanis.

1 Like
6

Yeah, making archons is a big mistake with p1. Storms become highly valuable, and cutting your spell battery in half by rushing archons is the worst thing you can do to yourself.

1 Like
7

Most of the “increase cost” prestige isn’t really worth it.

3 Likes
8

I make archons all the time as P1… after my energy has run out, because having Argus Crystal means they go back to 200/200 after merging.

9

I would agree with merging into archons with p1. Templar are just so flimsy, it’s rarely viable to have them running around as Templar. That said, you should be casting all their storms before merging if at all possible.

1 Like
10

It really hurts the early game honestly. It’s because you’re usually making dragoons/zealots, which end up costing more and having 0 benefits. I haven’t really tried P1 out, but I don’t think it’s that good for dragoons/zealots? So you’re basically playing on a huge handicap in the early game just for even more expensive tech units. And while these tech units have 100% increased SPELL power, they are that much harder to replace with the high cost.

1 Like
11

I have to admit, none of Artanis’ Prestiges are really fun for me. None of them changes your army playstyle enough to be different from regular Artanis. I like P3 the most, but that also only changes your top-bar abilities behavior.

All of them are just… Artanis+

Something like the Hero Artanis Prestige would have been nice, to really change your playstyle. Or something like “Golden Armada”.

Advantage: Artanis’ Stargates can now build Carriers and Void Rays. Fleet Beacons have additional upgrades. Cybernetics Core tech requirement removed.
Disadvantage: Gateways are unavailable. Solar Bombardment is unavailable. (maybe something else instead)

Just an idea to know where I’m getting at. I like Prestiges which change your regular playstyle the most. Which is why Alarak’s P3 is so refreshing, after playing with Ascendants for so long. Mengsk P2 (Royal Guard focus) is simple, but done well, since a Royal Guard only playstyle is finally viable.

2 Likes
12

Artanis P2 was fun, before they nerfed it.
But apparently we’re not allowed to have too much fun in a mode that isn’t even competitive.

8 Likes
13

Oh yeah, the good times when it cost 10 Energy. Which still ramped up quickly in terms of energy cost if you didn’t play carefully.

14

you know what I just thought of? what if P1 gave you artanis as a hero, and while he was alive all your units abilities have the 100% effectiveness, but you are denied access to your topbar?

1 Like
15

I think P1 should have reduced ability upgrade cost and research times. The increased unit cost of P1 really weakends Artanis early on till you get enough units out, and research their abilities . Getting the abilities this prestige buffs a little bit sooner would help.

I go as far to say that this prestige would work very well but still not be OP if you got the Citadel of Adun, Robotics Bay, Templar Archive, and Fleet Beacon research upon building the structure; Or if this is too much of a buff, allow all the research for the respective structure to be done in a one shot research for like 250/250 or something. Heck even if the research cost wasn’t reduced, but somehow allowing simultaneous research of abilities would be nice.

I’d say keep the 30% cost addition but work a way to get the abilities research cheaper/ faster.

3 Likes
16

Just maxed P1 last night - dragoons are still okay (in small numbers) but Zealots are great. Their whirlwind has double damage compared to P0, which means your mineral dump turns into a bunch of 3-second psy storms.

Obviously the “money” picks in P1 are templar/archon (2x damage feedback, psi storms do 40 damage plus restore double shield) with a side of tempest (1000 damage disintegrate) but the list of buffs offers some surprising benefits:

-Immortal barrier 2x effectiveness, for a total of 400 shield after the upgrade.

-Reaver builds scarabs way faster. I don’t build reavers often (Artanis’ mobility is bad enough) but you basically never run out of ammo now.

-Phoenix lift has half cooldown. Add the double lift research and you can basically go mass phoenix with little issue, with a few tempests to deal with massive units/structures.

And of course, templar psi storm’s shield buff research means technically EVERYTHING can be a bit more survivable; I don’t feel as bad getting dragoons as I did getting stalkers with Vorazun P2 (the closest direct comparison I can make) because when dragoons trigger guardian shield, I can literally storm myself to bring them back to full. They’re shockingly durable, and it’s directly due to the prestige.

All this to say, I’m not convinced P1 is better than P0, but it’s generally worth the increased cost if you have the micro to pull it off properly. Which I suspect is the point.

17

Zealot - Sure, more WW damage, but you’re paying for it in cost. You can just make an extra Zealot for every 3 you make in P1.

Dragoon - Absolutely no benefit. Inexcusable, tbh.

Immortal - Sure, nice barriers with upgrade, but you have GS and you’re better off spending extra money on damage to kill the enemy faster rather than getting tankier. And you need barrier research to make it remotely worth it.

Reaver - Not running out of ammo is nice, but that’s not worth 30% more on a Reaver, which is not a cheap unit.

HT - This is a mixed bag for me. Enhanced storms with plasma surge is pretty nice. But once you merge them into archons, you really start noticing how few storms you actually get compared to P0.

Archon - See above.

Phoenix - Not particularly impressive and it sort of becomes useless to lift units when you can’t really lift a significant number of them at once.

Tempest - The enhanced ability damage is useless. If you haven’t killed the wave in the time it takes for the DOT to take effect, that probably means your own force is probably already destroyed. It’s useful for trains, but that’s about it. Not worth the 30% extra cost, which decreases the number of Tempests you field in the first place.

Overall, I think P1 is poorly executed. The cost penalty is awful. A fairer trade-off would be reduced damage on certain combat units while their abilities are buffed. This should only apply to Zealots, Immortals, Phoenixes, Tempests, HT/Archons, Reavers since those are the ones that actually have abilities to apply anything to.

20% damage penalty on these units sounds tolerable.

18

I like the thought of the penalty being reduced damage instead of increased cost. Give everything a 25%-50% reduction on their auto attack but keep the 100% buff. This could allow them to allow units like dragoons to also benefit from the 100% increase. +4 range and +40 life with double shield heal would be worth it for damage loss.

19

Decreased damage like a fair trade off in theory, but look at what happens with Vorazun’s P2, unless you’ve got a good way to take down everything via abilities then it just doesn’t make for a well rounded setup. Mainly high hp targets become a big concern, 1000 damage Disintegration sounds good but it’s only a non-stackable 50 dps on anything but a train.

4 Likes
20

Yeah you don’t want -25 to -50% damage as a trade off, trust me lmao.

And just a note, doubling shield heal then halving damage means what, yes you guessed it.

1 Like