Artanis P1 - how much should would put into ps2 option A?

P1 is Valorous Inspirator

ps2 is between…

  • Power Set 2

    • Energy Regeneration and Ability Cooldown reduction: +1.5% / +45%

    • Speed Increase for Warped units: +2% / +60%

I’ve been putting max into option A, but wondering if I can still go lower to get some Speed Increase back as well.

Always going to be value in warp in speed, but at least to me it seems that P1 both gives more value to regen/cooldown, and less value to warp in speed.

It’ll always come down to play style, but personally the choice is pretty clear in favour of a 30/0 split as a generalist setup of P1.

The main factors for me for more to warp in speed would be expo speed is hurt a bit with focusing regen/cooldown, and 30/0 is overkill with Reavers. As no other unit has an ability that benefits with warp in, and that’s where the value in P1 is.

I’d say more dependent on how you’re playing than anything else.

In theory P1’s increased ability effectiveness doesn’t change any of the ability’s cooldown (except in the case of Reaver). This in turn means Mastery 2’s 45% ability cooldown reduction really doesn’t do much for reaver by comparison (but if you’re reaver heavy then this becomes relevant).

It is important to note the Mastery set 2 doesn’t change the damage output of abilities in that same breath, whereas P1’s advantage does (such as Storms dealing 160dmg vs 80dmg per cast). Similarly, Immortal’s barrier can absorbe 2x as much damage.

Why am I talking about several non-competing units?

  • Mostly cuz despite how Templars are very highly sought out in P1, it isn’t the only way to approach P1 (as Rick alluded to). In terms of High Templar’s energy benefit, you’re getting something like 0.56/sec vs 0.82/sec (which is like 0.26 extra/sec, 75energy/cast / 0.26extra/sec = 288sec or 4.8min ~ 5min for 1 extra storm per templar, assuming you don’t waste or lose the templar, etc. Honestly, given the 2x dmg per storm, this extra storm is extremely trivial. <== This is if you’re Templar prone as P1.
  • On the other hand, if you’re still going with a backbone army of Immortals. This means having your Mastery set 2 into the Cooldown vs Warp-in speed will compete with one another. As such, this can be interpreted as “how well can you micro?” More micro ==> Less need for cooldown, thus higher benefit from attack speed mastery, and vice versa.
  • Now if you’re the kind that likes to play around with Reavers (although they are probably very poor as a unit overall, but I love them worms lol), then my personal opinion falls on “more cooldown > less cooldown”, as the scarab creation ability is dependent and benefits more heavily on it. Given Reaver’s biggest downfall is ‘not enough scarabs’.

Of course, P1 affects more than just the 3 mentioned units. Most of the 'damage increased abilities (disintegration, ww, etc.) fall into the more micro category above. Meanwhile, the more meme-type of builds like reavers and phoenixes will benefit more so as described for reaver (ie. more cdr is better).

You can do as you wish, honestly. I go whole hog into it, as I tend to FE using Orbital Strike, and then my army is usually Zealot/Templar or Zealot/Reaver.

I’d keep putting all points in cooldown reduction, splitting is a bigger waste than it looks as the last points have a greater effect. If you translate it a -0% cooldown gives you 100% the normal amount of spells, -15% cooldown gives you 118%, -30% cooldown gives you 143%, -45% cooldown gives you 182%, a -60% cooldown would give you 250%, a -90% would give you 1000%, a -99% cooldown would give you 10000% and a -100% cooldown would OSHI-

As P1 the zealot’s twirly thing will do more single target damage than their regular attack and with full points in cooldown reduction you only have to wait 2.5 seconds after they’re done spinning before they can go again. With P1 they’re totally worth their own control group even if it’s only for manually activating their twirl. I have no idea what’s up with their charge but you’ll often see them shooting over from one enemy to the other.

To get the most out of P1 you rely on active abilities so save the warp haste for P2.

2 Likes

More casts do not translate directly into more ‘ability damage’, as is suggested by the more mastery into cooldown reduction…???

As the Zealot does its Whirlwind in P1, it’ll deal 35dmg total over 3sec spin (in non-P1), 70dmg (in P1) [both wiki sources], or 20dmg per sec for 3sec (in-game tested P1, MM map RtK - *50SP/33HP zeal vs 1WW = 23HP left) depending which source you wish to believe.

  • Point being, the amount of damage dealt by a single Whirlwind in a radius of 1.5 is already very high.
  • A 2nd Whirlwind triggers generally regardless in all cases, except P3 as it doesn’t have Guardian Shield. In P1 specifically, the 60 total damage dealt is usually accompanied by multiple Auir Zealots (as rarely does a player use a single 1, unless they are extremely seasoned and have the eye for the situation).

So the fact ‘full points into cooldown reduction mastery’ = more damage isn’t really true in application. Yes, in an ideal world, where the zealot doesn’t die after his 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th… etc. Whirlwind against an infinite HP target, P1 with higher cooldown mastery would deal more damage. However, in practice, this almost never occurs. Instead, most zealots get 1-2 whirlwinds out before they meet their demise. And the 60-120dmg in P1 is plenty regardless of the mastery choice here.

It’s important to note that Zealot’s Whirlwind is a very special case as well, where most other units’ abilities are gated by other mechanisms. For examples:

  • High Templars require energy no matter how fast you can ‘re-cast’ the next storm.
  • Disintegration doesn’t stack.
  • Scarabs take time to build, travel, and overkill.
  • Graviton Beam while more frequent does no damage by the ability.

Moreover, it is important to note that many many objectives are immune to ability damage. I am not against anyone choosing Cooldown Reduction Mastery, but do note their actual benefit in P1. And like some others mentioned, Warp-in Speed alternative mastery applies to all units AND in more encountering situations than abilities can otherwise… not that you’re losing abilities by not choosing reduction mastery (lest we forget :stuck_out_tongue: ).

Cooldown Mastery AND energy regenrration.

What are you calling down?

  • high templar: more storms, less cool down
  • zealots: more whirlwinds (who cares about their auto attack if they are spinning?)
  • reavers: cool down reduction Mastery does - as I understand it - allow to Reaver to fire continuously without running out of Scarabs. If there is a certain break point here then perhaps there is an ideal split possible for Reavers specifically
  • immortals: less cool down on barrier makes them nigh Immortal (hence the name)
  • archons: more storm, less cool down
  • pheonix: less cooldown, more lift
  • tempest: just 3 is enough to DoT Watchers in DoN for instance or throw it at trains.

P1 is ALL about the abilities, why wouldn’t you want to be able to use them more?

Really depends on your playstyle and preference. I like to pre-warp my units so CD Reduction and Energy Regen is more for me. Some players like to do mass warp in Legacy of the Void cinematic style so warp in-bonus favors them better. Though on long missions the former mastery will do more for you.

Literally explained the details on why it ain’t a bad choice to not choose cooldown mastery. Some people :rofl: lmao.

And it makes literally no sense. Sometimes it seems like you literally are trying to give bad advice to make people play worse or you just don’t actually play the game (which is at least true of the advice you give regarding mutations).

Why would you not want extra energy regeneration for your HTs? P1 is the storm prestige! What is the actual benefit of Warp in Mastery for P1 when almost every unit you would want to Warp in is going to benefit more from cooldown reduction?

I know reading is hard but to reiterate for the illiterate. The amount of energy increased from max 30 points into mastery gives you an approximate net 1 extra storm every 5min or so for every HT. This assumes you:

  1. are always casting optimally to max damage radius
  2. never cast unnecessarily (as in 3x storms where 2 is needed)
  3. HT stays alive (or is not converted into Archon, as now you are only gaining 1 extra every 10min due to 2x HT into 1 archon).

Those are the actual benefit for HT and storms from Mastery itself. And it can be useful when storm does 80dmg but in P1 the 160storm is quite different.

P1 is the storm prestige indeed but that isn’t lost at all because you chose Cooldown Mastery. 100% more ability damage remains regardless of your mastery choice, shocking! That’s where it is too difficult for someone like you to comprehend. It’s ok though, we can explain it again for just you :wink:

I went and tried a ME just to test and what I found:

  • Reavers ran out of ammo drastically reducing their usefulness against infested (a great perk of P1)
  • HT were constantly out of energy
  • barely any benefit from Warp Mastery as the prestige relies so little on basic attacks

Overall I see a great loss in effectiveness switching Mastery with very little/no benefit. Can you provide some examples of where Warp Speed Mastery would actually be useful? Do your Zealots do a lot of basic attacks?

So, 3.26 storms per 5 minutes or 2.23 storms per 5 minutes. Most people have figured out the efficient way to play P1 is to mass HT and Zealots when possible and then it’s all about the energy regen.

2 Likes

Fearr, in what way does speed increase mastery help P1 ht+zealot more than energy/cooldown? BTW, I’m not saying either is a huge benefit, just that speed increase overall is worse for me.

1 Like

If you’re going HT + Zealot, it wouldn’t be MORE beneficial. That isn’t to say it is somehow crucial either, in that same context. That has been my point - the mastery choice is player dependent. To say otherwise is just misinformation.

This is how these discussion get warped though. I point out the benefit of each in initial posts. Capitaine make these nitpicky debates. I try to elaborate on a specific aspect (in this case HT). People see only parts of it as I’m somehow promoting Warp-in Speed over Cooldown Mastery.

In reality, I’ve simply highlighted the unnecessary part of the mastery itself. As well as how it has been skewed by how important people feel it is in P1. That is what OP and this topic is discussing. People like Capitaine who nitpicks and changes the discussion to “P1 is only HT/Zeal therefore more storms + WW always better than less”. Like f me right? Lol.

As usual, he claims all of his observation without any replays. What exactly is “constantly out of energy”? How is Reaver drastically less effective?” And in circle we go. I mean after all, if it’s that obvious as Capitaine claims then there’s nothing wrong with showing some replay for it? So we can all see what is so “drastic” and “how energy empty is it”.

You don’t need a replay to see for yourself that:

  • a reaver constantly firing without cooldown mastery WILL run out of Scarabs (so a P1 player with Warp Speed has to spend resources on extra scarab upgrade)
  • your group of 10 HT (which is an expensive investment for P1) will get either 22 or 32 storms per 5 minutes depending on mastery. In my experience this is the difference between being “spam happy” and “waiting for energy”. Of course if you are pro (like you?) and can perfectly target the exact amount of storms in exactly the right positions maybe it is okay?
  • sending 1 zealot forward at a time to spin and clear waves is a simple and obvious strategy. Extra spin = extra win.

But really the question is what benefit are you getting out of Warp Speed Mastery for P1 Artanis? Are you calling down a lot of units that aren’t immediately spamming their abilities?

Remember too Fear there are people out there that do or have in the past struggled with their literacy so maybe it is a thing that is better not to joke about just because you want to hurt my feelings okay?

The replay won’t hurt to be uploaded, why are you so defensive??

Nobody disputed Reavers benefit the most from Cooldown Mastery. FYI, with mastery it replenish every 2.2sec, attack speed 2sec, which means it’ll take basically forever to run out.

Your math is off here by a lot. 10HT will have 200 energy (cuz nobody summons them without the research). To get to 10HT, it takes this much set up:

  1. Gateway (no need for pylon for Artanis ofc), 65sec.
  2. Cybernetics core, 50sec.
  3. Citadel, 50sec.
  4. Templar’s Archive, 50sec.
  5. Psionic Storm, 60sec.
  6. Khaydarin Amulet, 60sec.
  7. Perhaps Plasma Surge, 90sec.

Let’s say you skipped #7. It takes you total of 5min35sec from 0min, which is impossible. That is non-stop tech to them without expanding or any delay.

  • To reach 10 x HT on P1 will cost you 195gas/HT x 10 = 1950gas (+the 400gas to tech there).
  • @ a rate of 114gas x 4, this will take you, [1950 + 400] / [114 x 4] = 5min9sec.

Realistically and non-realistically, since all the calculation is based on @ 0min you have 4x full geysers and 150min with a probe ready to make Gateway right away. <== It'll take you 10min+ to get them. In a 15-20min coop game, you'll have 10xHT with full energy at 10min at BEST. This translates to 200energy/75 = 2.7Storms/HT, 10x that is 27storms already. ===> 5min later @ 15min, you'll now have 168energy without mastery vs 244energy with mastery. <== You get a literal 1 extra storm (or rather 10 extra storms additional to the 27 + (168/75 x 10) = 49 storms, optimizing everything in an impossible scenario).

Explain to me how 49storms doing 160dmg is not spam-happy vs 59storms would all of a sudden be spam-happy???

#LearnToMath
#LearnToRead

Not talking to other people, just you. Notice how this is a reply to YOU + quotes and replies of YOUR posts. Also, it’s just a fact you continue to troll. So either you are illiterate or you’re trolling… which is it??



Remember Capitaine, I didn’t advocate or force anyone to NOT choose cooldown mastery. I am highlighting the benefit and the clear competitive choice between the 2 sets. You are the one who said and I quote:

Fact remains that is just not true. I serve to inform players and not put out misinformation like you. Your arrogance again and again dazzles us with its audacity! Why? Cuz apparently you play a few Brutal+ games and think you are da man lol.



I look forward to you further moving the goal-post, asking another question already explained. However, I am here to serve your forever confused mind.

“Clear competitive choice”. Plenty of examples have been given as to why cool down mastery is strong but you’ve failed to give a single example as to why Warp Speed Mastery is good.

And you attack my reading and comprehension ability :rofl:

See, goal post changed, how predictable. If it’s not about “why P1 is the HT/Zeal prestige” then now it is about “why attack speed mastery isn’t beneficial”.

Did I fail to mention how Dragoon, Immortal, Zealot, Reaver, Archon, Phoenix, and Tempests all benefit from it? Weird… it’s like reading is difficult. You know how 60% > 0%, while retaining +100% ability :astonished: . Oh yes, math is also difficult.

You already said something pretty similar above…

… which I’ve quoted here. :wink:

Can’t we all just agree that cooldown mastery has a small but noticable benefit for normal P1 play?

That’s exactly right.

Even in that initial post I’ve provided the benefit of cooldown VS attack speed, unlike the portion you’ve chose to quote (that makes it seem to only highlight the reaver portion).

It remains that both mastery choices are quite viable, unlike what Capitaine is suggesting otherwise… which is somehow cooldown is sooooo good that without it P1 falls apart.