AI ghosts nuke cheat?

  First things first, I only noticed recently, and this is not a complaint thread, but about sharing a quite amusing observation. 
  We already know as a god Amon can warp in detectors anytime, anywhere, even as terran/zerg. But did you know that is just a gesture? Amon's force doesn't really need any "vision" to nuke you. 
  So it was on DoN, My ally was Vorazun and I was Mengsk. My ally decided to not bother with offense early game so they spam cannons and cloak them with dark pylons. All sounds normal right? 
  Amon's force happens to be Terran, and we all know he will spawn infinite ghosts army from the top/bot bases' academy. My ally vorazun seemed to acknowledge this. So they spammed cannons and built oracles to watch over ramparts and I added my turrets to deal with ravens. 

   This text will be hiddenStrange things happened next. Amon's ghosts start trying to nuke ally's defense, from far edge of top ramparts, and the axis of the nuke was clearly ON the rampart, exactly outrange vorazun's invisible defense. We made sure there was no raven, no spotter, no terran CC sweep present when we heard the warning. Two cameras on minimap, staring at the exposed ghosts channeling a max range nuke, and to a point it has no vision at all.
 You can argue if the ghost belongs to a human player, one may anticipate the rampart defense and nuke the potential area. But that can't explain away how the ghost places the axis on the rampart without any detection/vision. If you are familiar with co-op Nova play, you probably know that you can't place a nuke at any shrouded location with higher elevation. Nova, the ONE ghost with supreme vision must go to a ramp, get at least a clear LOS, then place the nuke. 

 So in conclusion, we still won as usual, but ramparts did get nuked one or twice. From an angle so impossible and so clearly cheating. I know AI doesn't act as human players, but the only explanation for this interaction is that AI has all map vision, uncloaked, clear as day. It just won't point click attack the "stealthed" units. Amon's nuke bypass this rule because it aims at a location. 

 Lastly, a trivial rule for me, if anytime Amon succeeded in landing a nuke, I would congrat the AI by eliminating all bases on map and make sure not even a worker survives. Take it as a silly hooman's revenge, Cheater god Amon.

Fix your formatting please, it’s pretty hard to read on a phone

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As for the OP, maybe AI getting smarter :slight_smile:

Maybe it was dropped off from transport during an enemy wave and didn’t get kill during the dropped off? Then it was hiding on the rampart? This hasn’t happen to me.

"First things first, I only noticed recently, and this is not a complaint thread, but about sharing a quite amusing observation.
We already know as a god Amon can warp in detectors anytime, anywhere, even as terran/zerg. But did you know that is just a gesture? Amon’s force doesn’t really need any “vision” to nuke you.
So it was on DoN, My ally was Vorazun and I was Mengsk. My ally decided to not bother with offense early game so they spam cannons and cloak them with dark pylons. All sounds normal right?
Amon’s force happens to be Terran, and we all know he will spawn infinite ghosts army from the top/bot bases’ academy. My ally vorazun seemed to acknowledge this. So they spammed cannons and built oracles to watch over ramparts and I added my turrets to deal with ravens.

This text will be hiddenStrange things happened next. Amon’s ghosts start trying to nuke ally’s defense, from far edge of top ramparts, and the axis of the nuke was clearly ON the rampart, exactly outrange vorazun’s invisible defense. We made sure there was no raven, no spotter, no terran CC sweep present when we heard the warning. Two cameras on minimap, staring at the exposed ghosts channeling a max range nuke, and to a point it has no vision at all.
You can argue if the ghost belongs to a human player, one may anticipate the rampart defense and nuke the potential area. But that can’t explain away how the ghost places the axis on the rampart without any detection/vision. If you are familiar with co-op Nova play, you probably know that you can’t place a nuke at any shrouded location with higher elevation. Nova, the ONE ghost with supreme vision must go to a ramp, get at least a clear LOS, then place the nuke.

So in conclusion, we still won as usual, but ramparts did get nuked one or twice. From an angle so impossible and so clearly cheating. I know AI doesn’t act as human players, but the only explanation for this interaction is that AI has all map vision, uncloaked, clear as day. It just won’t point click attack the “stealthed” units. Amon’s nuke bypass this rule because it aims at a location.

Lastly, a trivial rule for me, if anytime Amon succeeded in landing a nuke, I would congrat the AI by eliminating all bases on map and make sure not even a worker survives. Take it as a silly hooman’s revenge, Cheater god Amon." - Rick for you :slight_smile:

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The AI doesn’t have full-map vision. It is only able to see your 12 starting workers and the initial main structure (Command Center, Hatchery, Nexus), plus any structure its units have discovered thorough the game. It can see them even through the fog of war, and will send stray units to attack those (this includes Ghosts built at Barracks).

If you destroy all of those, then the AI will be blind to your presence, and only scripted attacks will bother you, as those are going either to your starting location or to your natural. On some maps the players can use that to their advantage, and place a structure somewhere outside, far from AI vision, and never be bothered anymore.

DoN in particular is known for solo mutations runs where a player clears some part of the map (i think it was the bottom-left part), places buildings there, and then lets the main die to the infested. As long as no unit sees the remaining hidden buildings, the player can safely clear the map without worrying about defending.

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Thx, I don’t know how my original post alone get screwed.

Good to know, how did you know that? I wish to read more about gimmicks that Amon does. I checked the replay of that match, That nuke was indeed targeted at a higher elevation, also cloaked location. I noticed Vorazun Dark pylon can seriously cause many AI abnormal behaviors, for example on L&L.

If you really wanted to use Vorazun’s Dark Pylon to help on DoN, then you need to get mastery points into it (not I personally prefer this cuz it’s useless). That said, the range does help to cloak the destructibles and prevent infested from attacking and therefore making new entry-way into central player area.

One thing to look out for is that any detection unit (which obviously include all the special infested) would grant said detection, rendering the cloaked destructible to be revealed. So you do still have to do a little bit of special infested hunting to keep the semi-invulnerable destructible rubbles up. Most of the scripts before N3 at least are fairly simple so most of the special infested will go around.

The details of these are honestly quite trivial, what Espurr mentioned is more useful than anything else.


As for the ghost issue, it isn’t quite ‘cheating’ per se. Amon just has different scripts running than what you expect, which is both to his advantage at times and to his disadvantage (as we, the players, take advantage of that in turn). Tid for tad lol.

In don morales’ turret gives vision to Amon of the entire base, she is totally selling out the commanders. The ai can’t nuke an area it can’t see, for example in oe if you build many structures near the cliff ghosts don’t actually nuke the buildings but nuke the bottom of the cliff so the radius reaches the buildings

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O so that’s why. Dumb NPC:“oh No A Stank!”

You have the triple ` tag. Remove that, and it’ll be normal.

so AI dos tend to get Vision cheat this is known…

I don’t think there is a place where everything is listed. You could try on starcraft2coop.com, but your best bet would probably be to join the coop discord and read what people talk about there. It always has someone trying to abuse the maps in some weird ways.