A last Fenix update?

Co-op Missions Discussion
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First thanks to the dev team for all your work. I love your game and sometimes it also really helped me to keep my busy at times when I really needed it. I hope the best things for you.

I mainly play Fenix in coop, I remember when your team took some suggestions from the forum, it felt great. I want to make some last suggestions if Fenix ever get updated.

My suggestions are mainly based on my experience of P2, even if I try to keep other prestiges in mind. One of the goal is to make Fenix more viable in hard mutations.

Kaldalis : right now he is amazing and doesn’t need changes

Warbringer : second star of P2, not as strong as Kaldalis but a very solid unit.

Talis: doesn’t scale well enough with Avenging protocol. Please half the power of ricochet by 2 and link it to the basic attack just like empowering glaves. Right now I can have fun with Kaldalis and Taldarin by making them continuously buffed (by killing my own units), but when I do it with Talis it is really disappointing… He moves faster but it is not worth it to spend so much macro/micro for such a small gain in strength. If a permanently buffed Talis is bad, then Avenging protocol is just not useful

Taldarin: he usually feels a bit weak… But he is the champion that gains the most from permanent Avenging protocol buffs. It is a lot of ressources to be invested but his power then get between Warbringer and Kaldalis. A very small area of effect added to his base attack would make him amazing.

Mojo: I don’t know how to change him, something along the lines of Talis modification would be good, but we can’t allow him to permanently stun enemies.

Clolarion : he is the most disappointing champion I hate it when a hybrid casually walks and the interceptors miss all their shots because of that. But P2 is weaker against air, so my suggestion would only be to add a buff with tactical data web to the solar beam.

All champions: add an ability “holographic projection” allows the champion to teleport anywhere for 15 seconds, at the end of this time the champion dies.
Yes I want an ability to deal with void rifts. The number 15 seconds is of course there to work well with Avenging protocol. I think this power would help tremendously for various mutations.

Do you have an idea about what skill could make Fenix both more fun to play an more versatile in mutations?

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I would be surprised if they even “rebalanced” Fenix at all. His prestiges all work fine (maybe not while leveling for P2). Given the state of updates to come, any Fenix changes would honestly be shocking.

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honestly disruptors need a buff to be relevant in fenix’s kit. anything they could do, you could do better with colossi or kaldalis.

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Can they cloak better?!?! I THINK NOT! Aha! Lol jk.

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Yes that’s true, it’s only my wish but I want more tools to face hard mutations. Maybe I should just learn to use the editor to make maps like maguro.

Oh right disruptors could be improved but how?

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For disruptors…I’d let their secondary explosions hit air as well

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yeah just make disruptors hit air so they have a purpose for fenix. his anti-air is kinda awful because mojo can only do so much

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It would be the simplest and most effective change.

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I main Fenix. According to my SC2 overlay feedback P2 tends to be my best prestige in terms of performance, though P1 I still think is safer.

P2 is borderline OP and wrecks ground comps. All you need is a full data web Kaldaris, other champions are just gravy.

If P2 has any problems it’s anti air. Mojo can take a fleet of void rays or liberators pretty well . Things can be a little harry though when they start bringing fleets of capital ships at you. Warbringer maxed out data web can at least 1 shot a capital ship. P2 can still win against brutal air comps but it’s not the strongest.

If I made any changes it be giving Colarion a stronger anti air attack. But honestly Fenix is in a good place.

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Agreed, there’s other COs that deserve that hypothetical (unlikely) last update much more than Fenix.

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I know it won’t happen but, I’d like Fenix to get updated so he can get Purifier High Templar/Archon. I’ve want them playable since they were released with the Warchest.

Edit: Prestige update*

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Are you sure? Fenix already have decent Anti-air capability (Fenix/Mojo/carrier/Even Adepts).

I’ve played Fenix couple of times but I couldn’t see how his air counters are inadequate.

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Grouped air is a huge pain for Fenix to deal with. His only explicit splash damage vs Air units is Mojo’s barrage ability. Otherwise, Adepts, Scouts, and Carriers are all single-target. Even Talis’s ability can only hit up to eight air units, and not only do you frequently come up against far more than that vs air comps, but it occasionaly bounces toward the ground.

Meanwhile, in the anti-ground department, Fenix has Kaldalis, Warbringer, Taldarin, Clolarion (with interdictors), and Disruptors (but nobody uses them because the former are all too good). There’s a clear discrepancy here.

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I agree with you all that Fenix is in a really good place for brutal+ but not for weakly mutations, disruptors hitting air would not change that. He needs a last tool to add depth to his gameplay not just raw power

TheFalcon, how do you think P0 is safer?

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I agree Fenix P0/P1/P2 general anti is air more than adequate. Talking specifically P2.

Mojo is an anti air ace, Talis is really good, and P2 Warbringer with full data web can one shot capital ships.

Still unlike the other prestiges where you can just make a bunch of scouts and adepts when draw on air comp, your army in P2 is Fenix + champions.

Kaldaris / Taldarin (they can still kill the hybrids on the ground) can’t damage air at at all, Warbringers auto attack can’t hit air, 1 of 3 Fenix suits can’t hit air and Colarion’s data web can’t hit air. So I’d say 3/7 of your army’s full power is useless against air with P2.

It’s still more than go okay to win regular brutal, not saying it needs a change.

But it feels weaker compared to P2 against ground because of how ridiculous Kaldaris scales in P2.

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Not so much P0, just saying other prestiges are safer than P2 in the sense you can build your army to counter the composition.

P2 your army is essentially Fenix + Champions. Your army is there to max out the champion data web bonus. You can priories whose data web to max out first based on comp. But it still less flexibility in terms of hard countering the enemy IMO.

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I’m not sure how Fenix isn’t adequate for mutations…

Kaldalis comes out super early and can deal with any early mutators, most notably Void Rift. With P2 being as strong as it is, you can expand and deal with them with ease. And it doesn’t have to be P2, Kaldalis is more than enough for these early issues.

Fenix’s units are also comparably cheap to replace, so even against economical mutators or Black Plague, this isn’t so much of an issue (as long as you avoid mass grouping everything and waiting for them to die, which isn’t a Fenix problem but a general problem).

In terms of mobility against weather type of mutators, Arbiter suit works fantastically to supplement his movement. So there’s no overt issue there.

Against Just Die, Polarity, Propagator, etc. none of these ever give DPS issues. Fenix is overall a fairly solid choice for most mutations. So I don’t really see how he’s weak in that department at all.

Fenix has been and remains to be in a good spot of “not overly OP” and “not weak by any measure at all”. Frankly speaking, to change that is more likely to change it for the worse than better. Small tweaks like the Disruptor Nova are acceptable as this is an outlier unit that generally contribute nothing more than a fresh gimmicky style.

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Hm how do you deal with rifts at the other side of the map?

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How do you deal with it as other commanders?

Even as Kerrigan, you’ll find it difficult to move through a heavily fortified base just to kill a Void Rift.

Kaldalis has the exact same issue except he comes out before 3min and cost a few minerals.

Honestly, for a P2 Kaldalis, it’s pretty safe bet. Due to his low cost, high reward, super DPS, he’s far better suited against HotS than any other heroes. And that’s saying a lot.

I guess what I’m getting at is you can’t pick a fringe case of “look Fenix can’t do this, see?” and make a case for his inadequacy. If it is an overt issue, then perhaps it needs a look at.

Take your comment here, how easy is it for Fenix to deal with Void Rift on the other side of the map? If it’s not easy for other commanders, then it isn’t a Fenix issue.

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Well I only play Fenix, so it’s true that I can hardly compare. But I’m not saying other commanders do better, I only speak about my own experience. Maybe Kerrigan also needs improvement, I’m just not talking about it.

I personally think all commanders should have all the tools to deal with most of the mutations, even if is harder for some of them. So I’d argue that it is a Fenix issue and an issue for other commanders as well. Or just a problem with the mutator itself.

Some people probably have a different take on this and think it’s good that you have to pick a commander depending of the mutation.

Few weeks ago I couldn’t win a mutation with void rifts, so my question was actually more about getting tips on how to do it with P2

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