Your Overwatch's latest video hits hard into Competitive Problems

It tries to find matches with a completely uncertain outcome, as the outcome of a coin flip is uncertain.

There’s no problem with putting a group of people together where you can’t predict the result based on stats alone. That’s how we all expect it to work and why I don’t get paired up against Dafran.

it’s not uncertain, is uses a system where it compares players to one another to see who is better. which is wrong, there should be no prediction at all, it should be purely based on your Rating

That would be correct. Even on a fundamental level the game does not provide a way to improve. The best we currently have is VS A.I. and even as a bronze player the amount you can get out of those games are minimal amounts of aim practice vs moving targets… even on hard difficulty.

The skill range is rarely over 100SR so to be placed with plat you’d need to be in the area of 2400 at that point it’s almost worthless as you’d be in the same area as them. Occasionally you’ll get people with a 300SR gap (Season 5 data - link below)

It’s very hard to be self critical and get anything meaningful out of it. You’re much better off seeking advice from others and taking their feedback to heart than trying to do it yourself.

That’s literally how you improve. Playing against stronger enemies helps you improve and helps you learn. Feedback on your play against those stronger enemies is also important.

Let’s take chess for example. Playing against a much stronger opponent can be an eye opening experience but what happens after the match is what’s more important. Getting feedback, being able to talk to them, getting their insight and ultimately making friends with them is what holds that game together. Playing AIs an reading books can only get you so far… being in the thick of it is more fun, engaging, and makes you stronger.

The determination of who is better is made by who wins the game. The prediction IS your rating. People with the same rating have uncertain outcomes. The more separate the rating is the more certain the outcome will be.

No, MMR is what it’s based on, and MMR is based on performance prediction among other things. It’s trying to be smart and friendly, and in turn is making a massive mess.

You both have kinda the right idea, I suggest taking a look at Kaawumba’s guide for more details:

I’m quite familiar with Kaawuma’s guide. I just am trying to get across the idea, but I should have just linked the guide.

I think it makes more intuitive sense to people to say that the outcome is 100% uncertain than to say there is a 50% chance of winning.

Technically, it’s the same, but people hear the 50% chance they feel like fate isn’t in their hands.

Edit: Technically it’s MORE accurate to say 100% uncertain. An end result of 50% is the measurement by which you show that the prediction was 100% uncertain.


Fate is in your hands, But, by trying to even out the matches and making them ‘fair’ you get really good players paired up with very bad players. which is the issue.

Let me rephrase, ofc in a good system these situations would happen because of random outcome etc, but in this system, these situations is what it is looking for, it is purposefully trying to make matches even/balanced to make the game more ‘fun’. But, this is actually severely harming the experience, and in turn is destroying the ladder. This is why in high ranked play you still have such an insane amount of very bad players, they get boosted there because the got paired with good players. And the same with all the ‘smurfs’ people complain about, who are mostly just really good players stuck at low rank because of the same reason.

It shouldnt be matched on a 50% chance at all, If your just better, your chances should go up significantly. Instead the match maker trys to balance this out with hidden mmr. This is how we get things like garbo teammates and enemy teams full of smurfs when your mmr is much higher than your sr. Now listen, I dont particularly care what rank im at as much as much quality, which is what the guy in the video is touching on. It just isnt fun to have to hard carry teams in order to win and ends up being more frustrating than anything.

It’s not. It’s matched to 100% uncertainty. If you’re better you win. The result then becomes certain. Then the next game this information is used to create another match, with better opponents, that also has 100% uncertainty.

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It doesn’t ‘make them fair’ it tries to give an average mmr for both teams. It can’t make matches fair it can only assume matches are fair based on mmr.

This stupid video is going to cause more problems than it’s trying to solve.

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Maybe, but at least there is a discussion that is for the most part constructive.

It’s not though. What it sounds like Freedo means isn’t what he actually is saying. Most people won’t notice what he’s saying and instead hear only “Fair Matchmaking is Bad” which isn’t really what the video is saying. He uses the term differently than EVERYONE ELSE that uses that term.

It does, it totally depends on what MMR calculations are based on, Blizzard already talked about weighting again grouped people to give solo players more of a ‘fair’ chance.
I am positive it also weights based on your performance stats, they removed the PBSR gain, but it is still in the MMR I am quite sure.

This is why the whole, throw hard if you start losing so the game will give you better team players works.

How’d you post a link :open_mouth:

Perhaps I am struggling to understand the argument here. I normally align pretty well with Freedo, but this time it didn’t come together for me.

I don’t agree that boosting or 6 stacking is an inherent ‘problem’. Honestly, when people who are boosted try to solo or duo queue, they are melted. I watched a friend who claimed she was “boosted” lose 1200 SR in a matter of days solo queuing after.

I do agree, however, that there absolutely needs to be something to reward people for participating. I am stuck in so many Masters level games with people who don’t join voice chat to AT MINIMUM listen for callouts, are way too stubborn and won’t switch off the Genji who has died by Winston numerous times, or people who whine, complain, and throw a typical 12 year old fit that because they got wiped on first point of Eichenwalde, and they don’t agree with the healer picks, they’re switching off tank and playing DPS instead.

Perhaps it’s just me, but maybe it’s about time for a hard reset of MMR. I think the current MMR status has a lot of people locked and playing with people who do the above a lot, but are having trouble progressing.

But that’s another story for another time.

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And this, friends, is why you all have crappy teammates in your matches.

You need to stomp down on this kind of thinking immediately. A good understanding of how the MMR system works, from the only credible source (the Devs) and laid out for easy reading with references by Kaawumba is ESSENTIAL for toxicity to end. Mayby not sufficient, but absolutely necessary.

If you throw because you don’t trust the system, you are causing the problem, not responding to it.


What he says is that the system seems to be boosting people, by trying hard to put them in ‘fair’ matches, instead of just dropping them in the real, cold hard world.
This has been my experience since forever, I am fully convinced something very odd is happening in ranked.

This is absolutely not what he is saying.

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