What is going on. Did I move into an alternate world where shotguns don’t function as burst weapons with a large spread to maximize the chance of hitting targets at close range? Like be for real, the difference is so small that it is disingenuous to say that they don’t serve the same purpose.
I don’t see how buffing her lethality when she was already lethal improves her survivability in a way that direct adjustments to survivability wouldn’t benefit her better. The way you (or they, if this is the words of the devs) describe it just makes it sound like they’re catering to bad players.
Characters should never be balanced with bad players in mind. If you can’t adapt to how the character is best utilized, you simply should lose.
Shotgun weapons don’t necessarily have to be burst-oriented weapons. Reaper should be one of the clearest examples of this. Echo is another.
Moreover, beam-based weapons are also, historically and currently, short-ranged weapons. You generally won’t find a beam weapon that extends past 15 meters.
They didn’t really improve her lethality. Her survivability is now more closely tied to Dancing Blaze as a portion of the Perk’s effects are tied to the core ability.
Not every hero is balanced or built for players with high-mechanical skill. Ryu and Ken might be beginner friendly choices, but Akuma isn’t, despite the similarity in their movesets.
Reaper absolutely is an example of a burst-oriented shotgun user. There’s no other way to use his shotgun other than burst. It’s only firing mode is shots in 0.5 second intervals that lose effectiveness beyond a certain distance.
As for Echo, that isn’t a shotgun. It does full damage from afar and barely has any spread (roughly 6 times smaller than Reaper’s).
Also, 15m is by no means a short range weapon, especially when the damage is consistent at that range. There are also beams in the game, like echo’s, that can reach upwards of 23m.
A 6 damage increase is a pretty significant bump in damage on her primary fire. Sacrificing 20 damage for it on ability that’s rarely up as much is definitely a net buff to her lethality.
It should be though. Otherwise your left with sandbag characters who are never allowed to exist in the highest ranks, regardless of how skillful the player is with said character. Risk should always be rewarded and the less risky something is to utilize, the less you should reap the benefits of said tool.
She’s still mediocre, but she’s frustrating to play against as someone who plays her a ton I wouldn’t be opposed to a health nerf, she has high mobility and a invulnerability window.
Reaper takes about 4 seconds to empty his ammo rounds which gives him a 4 second sustain, compared to Soldier’s, Sojourn’s, Cassidy’s, and Freja’s 3-second sustain.
Reaper has no other form of damage beyond his ultimate, which takes 3 seconds to complete. With Dire Triggers, this changes somewhat, but it’s also on a limited cooldown, and it’s also built as a kind of sustaining shot.
Further, Reaper’s design was built around sustain, his shotguns hit wide, so no matter what, your targets were going to miss most of those shotgun pellets. That’s changed over the years, but Reaper still maintains a wide spread of 6 degrees. That’s wider than Genji’s Right-click.
Then there’s how he recovers health through the Soul Orbs or Reaping Passive. How Wraith form operates and stalls out and clears debuffs. Everything Reaper does is built for sustain pressure - certainly not to the degree Ashe or a Tank or Support would, but still operating on sustained damage and pressure.
It’s classified as a shotgun. I didn’t really believe it at first, but that’s what the data showed.
Echo’s beam is 15 to 16 meters.
15 meters, by Blizzard’s definitions, is short-ranged. Mid-range is 20 to 30 meters. Anything past 30 meters is considered long-range. Less than 10 meters is CQC, or Close-Quarters Combat; this is the range of many melee-based Tank weapons.
Most of this stuff is year one basics. But I’m not surprised that players struggle to understand these concepts; Overwatch struggles to communicate this stuff in general.
6 damage wasn’t added to her primary fire, it was added to her alternative fire.
20 damage removed from a cooldown that can be used twice is 40 damage removed total, in exchange for around 30 increase to Anran’s RMB. It averages out to be about the same and it’s there to encourage players to use her Right-click more often… as that’s where most of her damage lies.
Or you wind up with what the Fighting Game Community is struggling with in retaining new players and well as growing those communities.
Or how a lot of MOBAs have died out.
Or how StarCraft 2 died out.
Or how WoW can’t get new players into their game.
Lots of heroes have i-frames. She’s not presenting something unique here.
But we’ll see where she goes from here. The improvements should hopefully get players going in the right direction with how to use her abilities and the added sustain.
I’m old enough to remember when people complained being able to do damage while being invulnerable is a big no no. Only thing that’s changed is it’s now on a dps hero instead of a support
Well, technically, the original “doing damage while being immune” started on Zarya. Mercy didn’t get invincibility until after Blizzard noticed how often she died whenever she used to Revive her whole team.
No, Reaper fires a near instantaneous burst of damage every 0.5 seconds. That is not even remotely the same as 3 seconds of sustained fire from soldier, who is firing out bursts of damage in 0.096 second intervals.
Not really. It still fires an instance of damage every 0.5 seconds because DT has the same fire rate has base primary fire.
What are we defining as “sustain?” Because it certainly isn’t sustained damage. From my experience with games, sustain has always meant how long you can keep the enemy suppressed for with continuous fire.
Shotguns are significantly worse than assault rifles for this because assault rifles don’t provide the opportunity for healing to take effect as they keep shredding away health as it comes in. Shotguns, on the other hand, provide temporary relief as the intervals between shots is far wider, giving healing enough breathing room to stack (and depending on the fire rate of the healing, potentially even surpass the damage being administered).
I fail to see the connection this has to the original statement. How does this impact whether or not Reaper’s shotguns are burst-oriented or not?
If anything, the fact that Reaper’s weapons are burst-oriented is what caused these abilities/designs to be the way they are. Not the other way around.
Where and by whom? Because by definition (from the Oxford dictionary itself), shotguns are shot-ranged guns. Echo’s is definitely not short range, nor does it have a large spread.
Also, with her minor perk, her range extends to 23m. I don’t know if it’s bugged, since the perk says 6m, but I am able to reach 23m away from the training bots in practice range.
Definitely not. 5m is what most tanks have in regards to melee weapons and/or abilities (Rein Hammer, JQ Carnage, Hazard Leap slash, etc.). 10m is entering mid range and by 15, you have already fully entered mid-range.
I don’t know if you’re getting these definitions from somewhere like a quote from the devs or something, but most short-ranged characters aren’t having any effect at 15m, let alone 20m. 15m is where mid-range characters are comfortably positioned, extending out to 30-35m at the extreme ends, prior to becoming as inefficient as the short ranged characters are at their max distance (not specifically due to damage, but more so due to recoil and positioning constraints). Long range is 30m and beyond.
Correct
Even considering her second usage of the ability, it’s something that can only be used once every four seconds at best. In comparison to her secondary fire that can be used every 0.6 seconds for 6 seconds straight, that’s definitely a net positive.
Fighting games are a niche and extremely complex, even with what limited characters they may have. The barrier to entry is extraordinarily high, unlike FPS shooters which are predominantly just point and click.
Replayability can exist even with mediocre changes and CSGO is a shining example of that. There are also a number of factors that make playing games like Overwatch significantly less complex (memory-wise) that are not alleviated in the same way for fighting games (teamplay, 3d environment, different damage/health systems entirely, etc.).
I don’t understand the need to cater to players who cannot preform without a crutch. Even if you do give them a crutch, they will eventually outgrow it and it will no longer be useful, so the time they spent learning said character with crutch will be wasted because other options are simply better as long as you have the mind-numbingly simple basic concepts down.
I’ve only ever played League and Deadlock, so I don’t have a reference for the quality of MOBAs and what makes one successful or not.
Never played either of these so, again, I don’t have a reference for what those games are even like.
I mean, an 8 year old can probably remember what happened 5 years ago with Kiri.
Even before that, there was Zarya who could do the same. Cheese mechanics will always be cheese.
Tell me what’s wrong with that statement. I would love to here you explain how Reaper is the easiest shotgun hero in the game when Hog exists and when Anran only has to hit the equivalent of one large pellet to do max damage.
Are we…being serious?? One a burning target she does 128 damage per second with her right click. Reaper does 230. Reaper 2 shots full health 250 hp targets with a faster rate of fire. Anran has to ignite and THEN 3 shot them if the ignite damage got healed while she got on top of them. If you can’t kill an Anran in the 2 seconds it takes her to get off 3 uninterrupted right clicks or get healed in that time then there is some skill gap there.
Anran got net nerfed by this patch. People think I’m crazy for saying it, but she got nerfed overall. She got buffed for a completely different playstyle that isn’t as effective so now she is in a weird in-between spot
That’s called having passion, but it makes sense that you don’t understand that. I strive for unattainable perfection because I know things can be better than where they’re at no matter what.
Disingenuous representation. Do you know the distance you have to be to achieve max body shot damage with Reaper? I’ll tell you, it’s less than 1m. The second you step back, you are missing pellets and your damage drops by 5 for every pellet missed.
Anran presses once in the general direction of an enemy from up to 10m away and retains full damage. Not to mention her primary fire is projectile poke with no falloff, providing her far more utility. Her I-frames are also better and provide better sustain. Her mobility is significantly better too, giving her x2.1 more movement speed than Reaper’s Wraith, while also gaining fast vertical movement.
That’s fine, but having passion at the cost of mental health is not ideal.
So you’re basically insane. You strive for something unobtainable, which means repeating the same actions over and over and expecting a different outcome. You also just said you’ll never be satisfied no matter what.
For you it’s nonstop complaint threads, which get largely ignored, by both forum users and devs alike.
Sorry that it’s that way for you, but it is what it is.
I mean they are just different heroes with different purposes. Anran is harder to get value on imo. Reaper has faster TTK, does better into most tanks that aren’t D.va and maybe Sigma, And has more protection on his mobility (teleport vs Anran dash). He also does not have a 0.2 second delay before entering his i-frames which makes his objectively better for reacting to threats. His sustain is significantly better, Anran is forced to fight in Reaper range with a fraction of his sustainability
I do not really have mental health to lose. I still want to learn to stop being as beta as the Overwatch balance team, though. One day I will roar “No More Tears” and make Ozzy proud.
This game is not that impactful to my life for my mental health to diminish when something doesn’t go the way I want to. This is something I do because I enjoy it and it benefits me to improve my reasoning/debate/presentation skills.
Pretty much, but not for the reasons you listed. I don’t expect different outcomes. I would like them, but I know that the chances of the things I ask for to be brought into reality are slim to none.
Also, satisfaction is easy. My goal is not satisfaction, it’s perfection.
It’s a pity that I don’t care for your opinions on my posts and I don’t stress over ‘not having number go up’ for interactions on them either. I’ll take quality over quantity any day. A single good discussion with one person is significantly more beneficial than 400 one-word responses saying nothing of interest.
She provides significantly more value than Reaper at significantly less effort, hence why she is the easiest shotgun hero in the game. Doing consistent damage from 10m out while having a massive projectile radius alone is enough to make her significantly more valuable with not even a quarter of the effort.
Absolutely not. The only tank that might be true for is Hog because he has no armor. Every other tank is shredded by Anran’s armor penetrating DoT, where as Reaper’s damage is cut in half against them.
You’re trolling… He literally stands perfectly still in the most telegraphed position for 2 seconds for an ability with a 10 second cooldown.
0.7 and no. Anran’s starts 0.2 seconds after using the ability.
One hit of Anran’s E is the equivalent of what Reaper gets from killing a 200 HP character character. Reaper’s sustain is garbage. You are getting 25 HP per shot on average if you’re doing significant damage.
You can heal 150 with one use of Dancing Blaze and it also does damage while doing so. The max you can get per shot with Reaper is 57.5 and that only happens on those rare one-taps from earlier if the target has more than 230 HP.
Anran has both a .2 second wind up and a .2 second recovery period on E. Promise I know how my character works. Again, hard to use to dodge CC when you have to predict the ability by .2 seconds.
I am also counting his shift as sustain. He can just press shift and then get healed while being invulnerable. Anran is likely only getting 75-100 healing per E usage. Reaper’s constant sustain is why he is better into tanks. Sure her does less damage until getting past armor, but he also can land way more of his shots while playing close to his own tank meaning he can get close to max sustain on non-shield tanks, and he breaks shields faster than Anran who takes years to do it
Also Reaper gets to press his no delay i-frame ability and garunteed flaot back to his team/supports. Anran can be shot and killed why dashing away. Anran requires way more map knowledge, cooldown management, combos, tracking, and apm than Reaper
That’s 0.2 seconds faster than Reaper’s Wraith Form which is the fastest ability in his kit when it comes to proc’ing invul. You are literally dodging 3.5 times as fast and somehow saying that it’s too slow.
He also does 0 damage while invulnerable and is completely telegraphed.
When facing tanks, he has to contest from within hammer swinging distance against tanks that have more health, more damage mitigation, more CC, and more consistent damage than him. Anran can poke from a distance and shred through their HP once they’re on fire.
Yeah you’re smoking something heavy. Reaper does not have an instantaneous i-frame ability. Wraith form takes 0.4 seconds to cast and TP takes 0.7.
Not only that, but Reaper requires far better cooldown management since both of his cooldowns are 8 seconds and 10 seconds respectively. With his cooldowns being that long, it is imperative that you know every route on the map and utilize it to it’s full extent because you cannot take short cuts using your abilities unless you want to be out of the fight for 8 to 10 seconds.