she’s in every single match, don’t care how good or bad they are, just don’t want to see that stupid purple face on the board and them sitting in the back doing nothing to the team, what’s even the fun playing her, i had enough of this widow picking thing


Literally logged in just now to play my first game. Entire enemy team was Widow, Hanzo, Illari, and Kiriko spamming shots. Logged off real quick after that game.


Good thing i play as the white faced widow xD


It’s Soldier for me. I’d rather see Widow, ha. At least she has weaknesses.


Hey, you’re wrong. Sometimes it’s Hanzo.



For once, I’d like to see this community address the fact that people begged for sniper counters to be removed, and then act surprised when snipers are a problem. I don’t care if you think snipers shouldn’t be in literally any video game; that’s not what I’m saying.

I want people to acknowledge the fact that, bit by bit, this community begged for sniper counters to be removed in one way or another, and unironically act surprised when snipers are a problem. Someone? Anyone?


End of the season. Players care less so that’s a good time to practice on heroes you specialize on or that you want to get more experience with.

If I login 80% of the time I’m going to be playing Ashe

That guy is 100% right

The thing is, in order for Widow to have as strong counters as she needs to be “not annoying to play against”. Either Widow would need to be really easy to kill when close range. Or those counters would drop the Support playerbase size in half.

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That’s not true. Armor packs could have worked perfectly against burst damage with a tweak or two, but people whined because they totally earned those kills, you guys, and whole mechanics should be stripped away to protect the ego of certain players.

At the very least, you acknowledge there IS a world where Widow isn’t annoying to play against. I just want more people to realize the developers did, too. But capitulated and got us into this situation were are now.

She’s always been one of the most popular heroes especially in quickplay. She’s fun to play. She brings players to the game and is one of the most recognizable heroes even to those who don’t play OW often second only to Tracer. If you are tired of playing her play in Ranked where she is only picked on maps she’s good at and by one tricks cuz she’s unfortunately a niche hero.

Everyone is annoying to play against when played well.


How would that not be annoying, to basically NEED to have a Torb in every match that’s catering to you, the entire duration of the match?

The way I see it. For the most part, each player doesn’t matter much more than any other player, beyond if they are adding something like “Marketing Value” through Streaming.

Beyond that, the happiness of a former OWL pro Top 500 player, doesn’t really matter much more than a Bronze Nintendo Switch player.

Whatever results in “more Active players” is better.

So why should it matter more that I’m annoyed I have to switch to Bastion because Rein is getting too much value with shield and his team, and you have to swap to Winston, Sombra, or another one of the many counters to Widow? I think you consider YOUR pov mostly and not much others. You claim she’s driving people away but the data I see says otherwise, she’s one of the most recognizable characters in the entire IP by a long shot.

Recognizable characters = brand awareness and that brings in money. In players, in players buying skins, in players even being aware of the game or talking about it. It’s the same reason Disney Lawyers are infamous for going after people that use their characters. They want full control of their IP and brand.

Fighting games are another example, Mai and Terry are known far outside of King of Fighters to people who don’t even know what King of Fighters is, and it gets some people interested in the game and playing it.

Killing off or making worthless or changing the identify of such a popular character WOULD DEFINITELY kill player growth.

Snipers however, exist in FPS after FPS and has been shown to have almost zero impact on retention rate OR popularity. In fact, it seems if anything correlated to growth because people like to play Snipers in FPS. That is why when OW came out and no limits was the only way to play there’d be 3 Widow per team. People want to play her. People are interested in playing the game because of her. If you made her not a sniper that appeal would lessen too.

OW is full of frustration for anyone as a team fighter if you don’t know how to deal with something. Just because you find frustration against widow doesn’t mean she’s the only offender or even the most popular one. People complain and OFTEN on these forums and otherwise about things frustrating them and every hero has had their fair share of delete threads. Isolating widow just shows your bias.

The only thing I think makes Widow different is Smurfing and Aim botters. These problems should be resolved however regardless for health of the game unfortunately no company has entirely figured it out and probably never will.

New players might be frustrated for example just by tanks. Because they win 1v1s against most characters just by existing.

The way healing and tanks work too right now, playing DPS, the most popular role traditionally, has higher mechanical requirements than it ever did. This I’m sure is a much bigger issue to player retention than a sniper existing which as I said, has existed in FPS after FPS and shown to be successful.


Right now, Hanzo is the MOST annoying. Literally tired of being insta-crit downed by Hanzo.

Next problem hero we are dealing with: DPS Moiras.

Third for sure, Widowmaker.

  • hanzo should not be rewarded for SPAMMING.

  • Moira should have biotic orb removed or at least a damage nerf of 75%.

  • Widowmaker: Needs mobility improvements, hook CD reduced to 7 seconds, hp to 200-210, and major nerfs to CRITS. (drastically reduced) with SMG boosted and Venom mine boosted. So we have more tolerable matches, while not making the character a throw-pick.

You don’t matter.
I don’t matter.
Population groups matter.

Shareholders for ActiBliz, or accountants at ActiBliz Corporate wouldn’t care one bit if both you and me specifically quit the game forever.

All I’m doing is telling the devs how to achieve the goals they already wanted in the first place.

Which just happens to line up with my goals of “More players”.

Literally the Team Fortress 2 devs say you’re wrong.

I can go get the quote if you want.

As I remember it, supports clamored for flanker nerfs back in S1-S2 because they felt like they couldn’t do anything. Then they act surprised when snipers are oneshotting them this time.

Deranged playerbase screeches that every hero that is not a one-shot sniper “takes no skill”

Same playerbase gets mad at all the people playing one-shot sniper heroes.

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I’ve said this before, but you’re assuming Torb would be the only one throwing armor or armor like packs. I wouldn’t have launched the game without at least one person in each role able to do an armor pack like ability or an ability that counters burst damage. That way, you don’t have to have Torb in specifically for burst damage.

Think about it. What if there was a support who could throw a buildable that protects against burst damage in some way? How? I don’t know, that’s the fun of it. We can think of ways.

Or heroes that could give overhealth, armor, or shields to help protect against it? These would have their own kinks to iron out, but it’d be doable.

For some reaosn, Blizzard has made everyone feel like there must be ONE guy able to do a thing. Yet, there’s tons of burst damage and shields, but there can only be one speed boost and character that can rez. I don’t get it.

I also don’t get why people act like killing should be the most rewarded thing, but when they see a sniper or popular damage hero of the month able to kill fast, they go “NOT LIKE THAT!!!”.

You claim that but everything I’ve seen claims you’re wrong, what you’re trying to do would hurt playerbase numbers. In my pov, you are just a delete widow thread off the rails and thinking they know more about business than they really do.

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