Lol, widow high skill. Get a load of this guy.
People often use other games as examples of how the developers should balance snipers, i.e. less health like in TF2. But you can’t extrapolate balance changes. They have to be specific for each game.
Take TF2 for example, the snipers there have just 125 HP, which is quite low. However, they still have a fighting chance when it comes to dealing with their counters. In other words, they don’t have hard counters.
In Overwatch, though, this isn’t the case. At 200 HP a Widowmaker stands a chance to get away from a hypermobile WInston or Ball, which have 500 HP and 600+ HP, respectively. Also, Overwatch has a ton of shields, something not usually found in other FPS games.
At 175 HP, Widowmaker is likely to be instantly killed by a flanking tank.
IMO, a better change would be to just give her a bright laser that shines wherever she is aiming at, giving the enemies a warning and time to react.
Ok well Overwatch sniping is by far fundamentally different to CS:GO sniping or CoD sniping
When I say other snipers I mean characters who are snipers, like in other hero shooters where their kit is based around being a sniper not. You can just use a sniper like any old FPS
Lets take Sniper TF2 for example, to balance out his potential to kill any class in the game in one shot, even when overhealed by a medic, he’s tied for having the least health in the game and his options for an up close fight are abysmal, having to rely on his SMG which is considered the worst weapon in the game for close range defence or a having to swap out to a melee weapon
It balances out his incredibly high damage over long range by making him weak at close range, because excelling at both just wouldn’t be fair
Genji keeps getting nerfed?
The problem is skill is entirely subjective
As a Junk main I think Widow, Tracer, Genji and a few others as some of the lower skilled heros while I think Sym, Doom, Pharah, Bastion, and a few others are some of the highest skilled heros.
Junkrat I’d say is somewhere in the middle…unless he’s against a team of nothing but his counters but that kind of goes for everyone… that has 6 counters that is.
TF2 Sniper is the worst possible example you could have come up with.
Not only does TF2 Sniper have fewer penalties than Widow just with the stock sniper (which is only gated by firerate, and made up for with 75 base damage), TF2 Sniper loadouts enable a variety of safeties, including protection from backstabs, fire-reduction, scaling melee options (in situations where melee duels are not uncommon). His tournament-legal secondary Cleaner’s Carbine can give him mini crits against heroes whose average healthpool is significantly lower and have zero barrier protection options.
I repeat myself, where are you getting this “sniper archetype” when literally none of the eSports, or even casual games, feature what you’re saying? Literally the only games that have this are mil-sims.
Woah, a Genji main found it easy to learn the two heros most like Genji!? Who would have thought! It’s not like they all fill the same role as flankers or anything!?
We’ll see how this change affects Widows gameplay in due time. Although, I can see how this might head. It’ll either have little effect of Widow, other than having to be more careful. Or, It could result it Widow entering a world of pain. It might make flankers too much of a problem to be effective with her. Considering how fast characters like Tracer, Doomfist, and Genji could kill her (The nerf would allow Genji to one-shot her), It would make her fragile character much more vulnerable. It would also make poke damage a bit more dangerous for Widow, with her lower health pool. Mix that with her Grappling Hook’s long cooldown with her terrible close range combat, and you could potentially have a problem with her. Personally, if this nerf were to go through, I’d balance it with a shorter Hook cooldown (Maybe 2 seconds less or 12 > 10. Although I can see how people wouldn’t like that.) To compensate for her being more fragile. If you were to ask me, the only buff I’ve really wanted for Widow is a close-range combat buff so she doesn’t have to hard-scope all the time. This could be a slight damage buff to her SMG, and a large spread reduction so that it could actually hit something. (It could look like this: Damage per bullet: 13 > 15 Max Spread: 3.0 Degrees to something between 2.0 and 2.5 maybe?) But that’s just my opinion. We’ll see how it goes it a few days.
P.S: As a slight edit, I’ll definitely can see why Widow needs a nerf. She can escape being dove if she’s smart with her grappling hook, and overall her ability to one-shot can be extremely powerful in the right hands. So, if it does go through, I’ll be fine with it. My only worry is the abuse Mercy players will go through being verbally assaulted by a Widow DEMANDING that they pocket them. ＞︿＜
Whether or not I think Widow needed nerfs, the biggest thing people agreed on was that she could survive being Dove too easily, and that for her hitbox and range no one could deal meaningful damage to her.
These changes address those problems, without taking away Widow’s underlying ability to kill quickly at long range.
I fail to see how this is true? Those 3 are easily some of the higher skilled characters in the game. Widow takes lots of practice developing your aim skill, learning hitboxes. Tracer has the lowest health pool in the game which is already a struggle. Plus, her expansive and complicated mobility take time and practice. While I don’t play Genji, most Genji players I’ve seen say that Genji takes time to learn, managing cooldown, learning his mobility understanding his projectiles (That one might be iffy.), etc. I could see Doomfist being on that list as well, with his cooldown management. MAYBE Sym. But Pharah can be easy learn once you understand her flight mechanics and her rockets, but Bastion??? He’s one of the easiest characters to play in the game. The only reason I could see him being considered hard is because of his wonky stationary playstyle and that his whole team has to revolve around to be most effective. Other then that, he’s just “BaStIOn guN GO bURRRRrrrRrrRRRr”
I’m not even a Widow main, I’m a Genji player. Already she is not difficult to counter at all. She’s just frustrating to play against when teammates cant position. Widow should be strong highest level of play imo.
I think the hp nerf makes for weird breakpoints. If she was going to be dive/bullied, or shielded into oblivion, she was going to have to swap, or cost support cds, to get value with or without 175 vs. 200hp. That part won’t change.
What happens now at 175 hp is a lesser skilled dps bullies her off of highground and some random accidental splash finishes her off. More deaths to lucky moira orbs, stray turrets, or helix splash. Not sure I like the nerf tbh.
Along with one of the smallest hitboxes and the most unpredictable mobility? Makes her heslth difference minuscule
And so does Junkrat, but because he happens to get more value from spamming than Widow can in lower ranks idiots actually think he doesn’t take any aim when it’s on psr with Widow when it comes to truly learning it.
Funny thing is I’m not even a Widow main, but you obviously cant play her either. If Widow was just about aim, than every cs go player would be t500 but they arent. Most of Widow is about flanking at the right time, which is no different than Tracer, she just has way less mobility and burst instead of sustain. Widowmaker is fine where she is.
This exactly. Dash right click melee combo 1 shots her without even a headshot. Just makes her harder to play against the counters that were already skill checks for the hero
Oh really? I’d love to see you main Bastion to a high rank.
As someone who has actually tried to learn all the heros you’ve listed it’s absolutely hilarious how incorrect you are. Which is quite sad as the gaming community has become full of foolish players like you who lack any understanding of what skill actually is and instead you people pretend easier heros are the higher skill heros because sadly, humans like to be rewarded so they pretend something is harder than it really is so they feel more important and successful than they truly are.
Widow, Genji, Tracer, and a few others have never and most definitely never will take the level of skill and practice Sym, Bastion, Pharah, Doom, and a few others do.
In bronze maybe. Tell that to Bastionmain and he’ll laugh at you and shut you up quick because he knows best just how BS that is.
Okay. Fair point. Just sharing my opinion. I’m saying what I feel, and the most common experiences I’ve had with the average player base. BastionMain has had an extensive amount of experience with that character, which would explain how he has an amazing performance with the character. I’m saying at a ground level point, that’s what you need to understand and learn the character, not master them.
Have you guys ever played against a very good widow. A smurf perhaps. Have you guys noticed how hard it is to deal with her unless you’ve got a very good widow of your own?
Well with this nerf, other options may become more feasable.
Seems like a good thing to me.
Clicking heads about the size of an inch moving at 100 miles per hour. Or just flat out teleporting to other positions. There are multiple types of skill. She requires the most of reflexive aim of any hero. The three heroes you’ve mentioned require tracking, positioning, and timing. Completely different skillsets. The heroes cannot be compared whatsoever.
Admittedly, TF2 sniper is probably the closest to Widow of any other sniper in any other shooter…But you’re right. Still not a good comparison.
But it is a mistake to compare to other shooters. That’s where we got the mess that is this current state of balance.