Why the Shield Bash changes are actually genius

[tamramx-1258]

Brig doesnt need mobility she is still gonna have circles run around her
oh such great change cant stun genji out of deflect, cant stun emp, cant catch pulsebomb, cant stun ults. literally all it does is proxy buff tracer genji ball doom sombra winston dva lucio.

[tamramx-1258]

LOL HOW tracer is just going to blink through it you wont be able to hit it LOL

[CoolUsername-11445]

@RobotWizard-116887

Except it isn’t a combo now, since Tracer can recall / blink at any time during it.

It’s a combo in the same sense as Genji’s, Ball’s, Junk’s and most of Doom’s. Not guaranteed but a combo if you land it. That’s how I typically hear the term used anyway.

[Sylhiri-1495]

@VexInsanity-2870

You don’t need the full combo.
You have just forced her to use recall. Without recall Tracer is VERY SQUISHY and is AT HIGH RISK.

What’s better, killing an enemy and forcing them to wait the respawn timer and walk back or making them go to a repair pack and start harassing your team seconds later?

[VexInsanity-2870]

@tamramx-1258

h such great change cant stun genji out of deflect

wait for it to finish and murder him with your damage her cant block?

@tamramx-1258

cant stun emp

OK, but you can bully Sombra with whipshots the rest of the game.

@tamramx-1258

cant catch pulsebomb

You can? You still have a shield?

@tamramx-1258

cant stun ults

Big nerf but who cares? There is so many other buffs.

@tamramx-1258

literally all it does is proxy buff tracer genji ball doom sombra winston dva lucio.

No lol. These heroes can be BULLIED by Brig’s new damage and range and mobility.

@tamramx-1258

you wont be able to hit it LOL

You don’t need to hit the combo, just either the bash or whipshot.

@Sylhiri-1495

What’s better, killing an enemy and forcing them to wait the respawn timer and walk back or making them go to a repair pack and start harassing your team seconds later?

Killing is obviously better?
But Brig rarely kills now? Especially against good flankers.
The new changes increase her kill potential and lethality in exchange for no stun.

Brig has always been about forcing Tracer to back off, that is how she counters Tracer.

[CoolUsername-11445]

@tamramx-1258

LOL HOW tracer is just going to blink through it you wont be able to hit it LOL

Counterplay! If Tracer is coming at you head on, she’s specifically looking to bait SB. Let her blink through you first, then 180 bash – same maneuver Cass uses with flash. Count her blinks when possible. Catch her off guard at flank angles and during brawls.

There are plenty of answers depending on the situation, but they won’t always work, as nothing should.

[RobotWizard-116887]

@CoolUsername-11445

Not guaranteed but a combo if you land it. That’s how I typically hear the term used anyway.

The combos are ones where they either can hit all at the same time (see Genji), or they stun a person so they can’t escape.

So, if you land it, and execute it perfectly, there is nothing the target can do about it, the moment the first part lands it is over for them.

In this case, Tracer can blink / recall out. So even if Brig does execute this perfectly, it doesn’t matter, since the Tracer player can just leave during it.

If it applied a “cripple” - where mobility powers go offline for a short while, then it would be a combo.

I find it wild that Overwatch doesn’t have cripples, only silences (hack), and stuns (everything up to sleep dart).

[pooch-11428]

So many people don’t know all that is worth losing stun.

I actually expect the new bash getting toned down. It does a little bit too much for 5s CD.

[DRUNKINJEDI-11320]

@VexInsanity-2870

No longer blocked by shields

im wondering about this… so will brig stop when it hits the hero on the other side of the shield or will she continue to go “through” the enemy hero model. so say she bashes someone 1 meter in front of her. will she only go 1 meter or will she go through the enemy hero model and continue to 10 meters?

i guess like a genji sword dash hmm

[Malbosiiq-1808]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[VexInsanity-2870]

She will stop on players but is not blocked by Reins barrier or winstons bubble anymore

[Dysvalence-1915]

You’re massively underestimating how important the stalling element of stun is. Beyond simply inspire regen for possibly multiple people during the stun duration itself, it discourages the immediate use of stunnable abilities, forces people to stay at standoff distances where the shield is useful, and frees up whip for other uses or as an additional spacing tool. All this could easily be 5 seconds of inspire regen, and that’s during a committed engage. In the later parts of the poke phases this helps prevent going into the main engage with significantly less than full hp. Throwing this all away for a little bit of mobility and damage destroys the synergy she has within her kit and her value will disproportionately suffer for it.

[Ranulf-1999]

@RobotWizard-116887

I find it wild that Overwatch doesn’t have cripples, only silences (hack), and stuns (everything up to sleep dart).

Zarya ult has one, so people dont just dash away from it.

What we need is low damage sources that apply it. I have been screaming about this for like years.

[RobotWizard-116887]

True, that is something I keep forgetting! You are of course right.

@Ranulf-1999

What we need is low damage sources that apply it. I have been screaming about this for like years.

It would have solved quite a lot, but they don’t seem keen for some reason.

I’m guessing “pressing the button to use an ability, and it not working” doesn’t exactly feel good to be on the receiving end of, but then again neither is hypermobility.

[Ranulf-1999]

Probably because they could actually counter hypermobility instead of pretending there are mobility counters.

Something something competitive, something something OWL, something something danger to watchability.

[RobotWizard-116887]

Indeed. I really don’t know what is going on sometimes inside team 4.

@Ranulf-1999

Something something competitive, something something OWL, something something danger to watchability.

Anyway, It seems like a bad idea from an OWL perspective as well, since people who stop playing the game are very likely to stop watching OWL as well.

But who knows what goes on in team 4.

[HolloH-11567]

Well there are disadvantages.

The removal of bash stun will take away the ability to cancel out hogs healing meaning shes no longer effective against him. You also can’t cancel out some ults like Reapers any more and will just get shredded. Bashing hog when he’s hooked your teammate also gone. Stunning mcree if he stunned your teammate, gone. Buying your teammate whos been slept, or trapped some extra time, gone.

@VexInsanity-2870

As an anti-dive tool, this shield bash lets Brig pressure flankers off of her with damage rather than the stun. If she hits Tracer with this shield bash, Tracer is gonna have to retreat. The 50 damage is a lot, and now Brig is healing herself.

Brig is now worse off facing tracer. Currently you use bash and then you whip shot immediately after which is 75 damage before she blinks away now you only do the 50 damage with sheild bash and she will blink away.

Aside from that your cant do anything about mobility like genji, lucio, ball, which is going to make the genji who’s hopping all around you or Lucio who’s skating all around the payload very annoying and hard to to deal with now.

Also one of the important parts about bash is the stun makes them stop shooting, now if D.va dives you you can’t cancel out micro missiles which means she will shred your shield with missiles and primary fire which changes the whole dynamics of the battles you used to have with D.va. Now you pretty much only can hope to boop and retreat because you stand no Fighting Chance anymore and before you could preserve your sheild because stun used to assist with shield dancing

You also can no longer stop a d.va from flying and bursting your teammate down you can only try to boop her and make it more inconvenient but that may or may not help. Basically there’s no way to actually stop dive anymore only inconvenience them, except Winston because he leaps.

I’m not sure what they’re going to do about countertackling but if stun means removing counter tackling then that’s another whole another set of things you can’t do now to help your teammates.

Her new bash distance actually puts you out of range from brigs primary fire which means bash cannot be used in combat for dodging or strafing without also putting you out of range

Bash can only move straight in a line and sometimes you don’t want to move that far straight in a line and will not be able to play around payload as tightly as you do now because now if you plan to us bash get back behind payload, the increased distance must be accounted for by playing further away from the cart or else you might overshoot your cover.

I’m pretty sure there’s more disadvantages, but I don’t want this to be too long.

[jrg7777-1411]

@Ranulf-1999

all because there is an arms race against Tracer going on.

We all know the problem but it’s never going to be addressed properly.

[CoolUsername-11445]

@RobotWizard-116887

The combos are ones where they either can hit all at the same time (see Genji), or they stun a person so they can’t escape.

So, if you land it, and execute it perfectly, there is nothing the target can do about it, the moment the first part lands it is over for them.

Eh just a difference in terminology I suppose, but that’s really not how the term is used in communities for combo-centric heroes. All of Genji’s combos are technically escapable or interruptible by the victim – albeit a point blank right click + melee or dash is a tough one to survive.

Doom is the hero specifically built on combos, and all of them are escapable or interruptible by the victim (RP into a close wall, shoot + Uppercut might be an exception depending on stun length, not sure). I don’t think there’s a Doom main out there who wouldn’t consider shoot, slam, shoot, uppercut + shoot to be a combo. Yet at any point during it, Cass can flash, Ana can sleep, Tracer can recall, Hog can hook, Genji can dash, the list goes on.

But it’s not like there’s some consortium regulating the word or anything, so there are bound to be some differences of opinion. Mine is that a combo is nothing more than a synergistic combination of inputs.

[RobotWizard-116887]

@CoolUsername-11445

Yet at any point during it, Cass can flash, Ana can sleep, Tracer can recall, Hog can hook, Genji can dash, the list goes on.

Not while it has stuns in it they can’t, and that is the point. If you can keep chaining stuns, you can effectively remove any input the other player has.

Same as Hogs combo, the moment the hook hits, you are stunned, and now it is ENTIRELY up to the hog if the combo works or not (crouch not withstanding, and I think that is a bug they decided to keep in the game).

Try it, see when you can Iceblock / Wraith form.