Why not fix LFG?

So, I wonder why so many people are so excited about Role Queue, Role lock, when it has been in the game for what, a year now? It has been in LFG.

Jeff already has stated that it isn’t a balance or meta issue. So forcing 2-2-2 isn’t about that.

It isn’t about having separate SR’s, because they could have separated SRs as part of an improvement to LFG.

So. Why?

The dev update video didn’t answer the whys for me. Jeff’s why’s are not solved by Role Queue. You will STILL not be able to play the hero you queue for if you fall the peer pressure. You want to play hanzo? Too bad, the rest of the team wants to play a brawl comp and needs you on Mei. Or Bunker, and need you on bastion or Symm to bounce from location to location.

For the pick last player being a detriment, well… for that player you’ll still have the same problem. Maybe before you would flex to support if mercy was needed. But if the team needed an Ana, you know someone else would be better on her, so you won’t pick her. But now, with Role Lock, if all you can play is mercy… and you want to play mercy. You will STILL be a detriment to your team if you try to fit in as Ana because you still can’t play Ana at the same SR you’ve established your Support rating. Ana just requires a drastically different mechanical skillset.

Why do they assume that all supports play the same. The game has been designed so every support plays differently and appeals to a different kind of player. They are also handle different situations and maps at variable effectiveness. So not only do you have different physically mechanical differences, but each hero is so very different game sense requirements.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the broken down SR… but it either doesn’t go far enough or the lock itself does not fit with how every character and Role has developed over time.

This leads to another of Jeff’s why’s, which is that the game has changed.

Yes, and you’ve been developing heroes specifically going against this direction for the whole lifetime of the game. Bliz has made hero after hero feel unique and play completely different from any other hero within their role.

Then, the BIGGEST fallacy is that somehow this is going to curb people disagreeing with your personal hero choice.

Come ON MAN… do you think some widow player who misses 90% of her shots isn’t going to be told to switch if the team isn’t killing things? If anything, this role limit is going to make things even worst.

I have experienced this is LFG. I use LFG quite a bit and often pair with a mei main while I play Symm. We role lock 2-2-2 (but the 2dmg is flex). These matches are super toxic and we created the group! We built our team around wanting to play Mei Symm because we synergize well with each other. Always, we need to get off Symm, the symm isn’t doing anything. When in reality, the tanks are feeding, or the healers are not healing.

Remember, this is when people queue for the role they wanted to play… and even stronger, because we screen for a main tank and not two off healers. So LFG we used to even better set up our group.

The way they did LFG was genius I thought. It should have satisfied the Role Queue, Role Lock, AND hero ban people all at once.

But after a short honeymoon stage. LFG died. Why?

Was it for the above reasons? Partially, but the ptr system doesn’t fix it. The only thing it does is force role lock on everyone.

Why? Not everyone wants role lock. People HAVE role lock and they don’t use it. I personally feel it is too restrictive to be locked into Tank or Support and I don’t have fun. My opinion is others fee the same.

The other complaint I’ve heard is Queue times. In the dev update Jeff voiced concerns about queue times. If you go into LFG and look to join as a tank or support, you’ll find a game very quickly… start a group with all dmg slots already filled, you will wait. Sounds like Role Queue will have the same issue. If they think that offering loot boxes is going to long term get people to play low queued roles, that isn’t what drives people. Case in point, once people realized that endorsements were only gonna give you more loot boxes, people stopped caring about endorsements and toxicity returned to normal. If they said that endorsement rating would affect SR gain, you better believe that the endorsement system would have been more effective to toxicity.

Another issue I personally have is that LFG throws you in as if you were a premade 6 stack, not the 6 randoms that you really are. There is already stastical evidence to back up why premade groups hold a slight advantage. The devs have even posted on here during the LFG rollout. So why would anyone trying to increase their SR number go into LFG against a 6 stack premade that have played together for awhile, when the quality of the games are the same in solo q and the games are easier to carry because the enemy is just as disorganized.

So, what I’ve summarized is that LFG failed because it was worst to climb than on solo q. Let that sink in. A team based game, you can rank up your skill rating better by playing alone with random people and no comms.

There is a drastic difference in actual skill depending on HOW you queue. If you always queue in LFG, then jump into solo q, you will be drastically better because your SR will drop 500 SR in LFG as you are playing a completely different crowd who actually play OW correctly. Games in solo q will be incredibly easy. I tested this a couple seasons after LFG came out after i noticed my sudden drop in SR after playing exclusively LFG. When I went into solo q, I had I think a 70% win rate. While my Winrate in LFG remained 50%. I have posted these results on the forums in the past to prove my theory. Nothing has changed in comp since that experiment.

So.

Why Role Queue? It solves nothing. It improves nothing. Why Role lock, when it is just so unfun for a very big section of the player base?

Why force this on the entire playerbase when only a fraction of the player base actively chooses to play in it?

I have a simple solution.

Fix LFG. Improve the UI so they can fast queue and fill in spots on a team. Make teams be able to auto fill spots to find players better and autostart the match when it is full.

If you want to improve people being able to play the hero they want without toxicity (which is the direct why the devs have stated for the reason for RQ), then fixing and getting people back into LFG by fixing it is the way to go.

The only way to effectively influence players to do so is give them what they want (or really the only thing they care about in comp) in exchange for doing what you want them to do.

Give them SR.

Now, I don’t propose a modifier that boosts SR like an xp bonus. What I think is to make it very organic and player driven.

How?

By promoting teamwork and team play. The best teams will find it easier to climb. Having great teamwork by playing a hero effective with communication… or using your flexibility on heroes to fill into team needs.

Remove the grouping priority in the matchmakers.

Make solo q and duos have to play games against a 6 stack if that’s the closest team to the SR. Communication and teamwork becomes a tangible skill.

This is a team game. Treat it as such.

Don’t force 2-2-2 just to force it and then enforce role lock. It isn’t fun.

1 Like

overwatch is for six friends, not six strangers

a newly formed team in LFG are still strangers, this is the crux of the matter

LFG should be used to fill up your friends list

I’ve linked this before, but if I had all of this QoL, I would never use matchmaker again.

I’ve seen this an part of the reason I wanted to make my own post about this topic. I wouldn’t mind some of these features (I actually agree with the individual SR thing).

I think that might help you personally want to play LFG, I don’t think they fix the fundamental problems most of the community ended up having with LFG, to go from loving it and the game to never using it.

I don’t think your “wants” for LFG would have stopped LFG from being abandoned, nor would is really encourage more people to play it over solo q. Especially considering one of the main gripes was team captains being too choosy. I too have felt this at times while trying to join another group as a solo person. It doesn’t feel good to be rejected and kicked.

That is why if the majority of the player base just wants to play, then what LFG was really missing was an auto queue and auto fill option.

I’m hopeful that Role Queue will lead to that…in the future but I am disappointed that they are already making balance changes specifically around making 2-2-2 a permanent feature making it as likely for OW to go back to unlimited roles as it would for them to go back to no hero limit.

I have a feeling this has more to do with making the game match OWL then improving the actual game. I just wish they would openly admit it.

well there’s nothing we can do to stop it now, we just have to let the dust settle and be ready to fight another day

you can’t pass to your linemen in football, and you can’t score an offsides goal in soccer.

it’s how team sports are done: artificial rules created to ensure the sport is played like it’s “supposed” to be played

Overwatch is meant to be played as 222…according to some, but not all