Why Life Weaver isn't competitively viable

EDIT: This has been rewritten in response to criticism. Let it be known my mind can be changed :D. Should be far easier to read now.

This will be an analysis post looking at why Life Weaver’s kit competitively fails, and why he cannot become a meta. Not in a “Ruin the game” way, but in a “Life Weaver lacks the tools to define a meta. He only fits into other characters metas at best.” It will also propose a rework to solve the identified problems.

Please note that I will be using terms from the Chess community. A lot of them fit really well for the points I want to make and I will include small definitions for their first usages.

I would have loved to avoid making a post like this but so many of you seem to think disliking Life Weaver means I’m bronze. Ignoring that I clearly, am not.

Life Weaver as a support is intended to do a couple of things that other supports simply cannot:
(Please note all terms in caps are in the glossary above)

  • Prevent teammates from being smothered (surrounded and 1v5’d) as situations resolve

  • Allow ultra-aggressive overextension

  • Make Support Points (High grounds or other protected spots in enemy territory, think the Reaper on high ground above your backline) more accessible for their team (for instance allowing Cass up on high grounds a lot quicker than before)

  • Act as a Gambit (A play that exchanges abilities, players, or other things for another advantage) support. His main utility gives up positioning in exchange for utility.

  • Dismantle previous “Winning Positions” where the enemy team was just going to have a straight material advantage.

  • Give supports the ability to control their teammates.

  • Enables even shammier sham sacrifices (essentially a sacrifice that gives equal or greater rewards to the team making the sacrifice, except now they don’t have to sacrifice a player).

  • Add more counterplay to Orisa and Zarya ultimates.

  • Intended to help with Deflection (Luring an enemy player or the enemy team into trying to get value from something they can’t, aka luring them into non-optimal plays).

What are the main problems with Life Weaver:

  • He removes agency from his teammates (No, contrary to what some people believe, any other support being chosen will restore more of it in traditional play. I have had 0 death games without Life Weaver believe it or not. Because with other supports, I don’t lose my agency without being able to contest it in some way.)
  • He typically enables snowball situations where your team lacks the utility to prevent the enemy from just rolling them.
  • He creates motion sickness more than any other player.
  • Makes tanking consistently a worse experience.
  • Is a character where not playing him well actively ruins their teammates play, unlike other heroes where not playing them well doesn’t impact other players agency or ability to attempt plays.
  • He turns into a healbot with no offensive utility. This is a death sentence in anything higher than gold as fights prioritise your ability to shut down the enemy and kill them fast. A character with no offensive utility will never succeed there on ladder. A plat Ana will outperform a gm life weaver. A plat baptiste will outperform a gm life weaver. A plat lucio in the right comp will outperform a gm life weaver. Etc. Etc.
  • He tends to undermine his own team’s position by removing the defence of another player. Typically can lead to knock on deaths where the person the pulled player was defending dies as a result.
  • Ruins sacrifice plays unless in comms. A lot of life weaver players on the forums have admitted to not playing in comms because their team keeps complaining about them.

But why have the devs plans failed? Is it just players not knowing how to play Life Weaver?

Well no. It’s not because players don’t know how to play him. He’s a character who is only viable in lower ranks where feeding is common, and good use of offensive utility is almost never used. He is essentially a far better Brig, made specifically for Bronze all the way to low plat. But this time he doesn’t break the higher ranks by being broken beyond belief, instead just being terrible there.

Higher ranked games see less cases of players being Smothered, they see less cases of players being put into Zugzwang (Positions where all actions only result in losing), they tend not to fall for sham sacrifices, they simply don’t benefit from the utility of Life Weaver’s kit because that utility is there to help bad character play.

They however tend to lose out because all of Life Weaver’s downsides still apply. The loss of agency, the lack of offensive utility, the lack of play making ability, the consistent undermining of defences on your team (makes someone else vulnerable), is incredibly disorienting. Tends to ruin plays, becomes a Karen. Etc.

He can pull people off cart in overtime (Have taken advantage of that to win games before since he can’t keep them alive on cart), He attempts to make Bunker’s in a game where Bunker comps don’t work anymore. He gives the enemy Tempo (Tempo is essentially who is calling the shots, and who is responding to them) and ruins that control of the rhythm if his team happens to have it. He completely invalidates the teams ability to sit in Sitzfleisch (Aka the ability to maintain your own position with your actions.) With other supports Sitzfleisch is possible, but as his utility changes his allies positioning, he actively ruins it. He simplifies the game down to a state that his team is worse in.

He undermines his team’s ability to occupy a position, he helps his team become more overloaded (he can’t help you with your duties like other supports. He will force you to deal with it, or completely remove you from the situation). He tends to ruin interposement (An enemy Soldier is shooting at your soldier, you shield them as Rein. You interpose the threat from the enemy Soldier) from his own team if they do so in a dangerous situation (every situation in a fight), he completely lacks the ability to create threats for the enemy without using grip and ruining another part of his teams position, and their agency.

A mouse slip from him actively gets people killed by removing their teammates from them in a way that isn’t easily reverted (like removing a Mei Wall), His utility is frequently forced giving him little control over how to use it (and when he does get to exercise it, using grip unnecessarily benefits the enemy team), he doesn’t prevent Forks (Multiple people are in threat of imminent death), he is constantly on the losing end of exchanges.

A lot of you claim I just hate Life Weaver. And you’re not wrong that I think he’s a terrible character design. But a lot of you keep claiming it is possible to win with Life Weaver without just having the other four players on your team being better than the enemy ones in ranks higher than gold.

Well I have been playing my offroles. I ended up playing dps, and got an 18 win streak. This was near the start of the season and went from plat 1 to diamond 2 farming Life Weavers in half of those games. I played my main role tank (it decayed from masters to diamond 1 who would have guessed) again for the first time in comp since season 3. If there was a Life Weaver on the enemy team, we won. If there was one on our team, we lost. I legitimately think if you form a team and never play Life Weaver, you will just straight up inflate your rank. My brother who is a gm support ended up falling back into masters trying out the changed Life Weaver in comp. He has dozens of hours on them.

Also have to say, tank queues are hilariously fast at the moment compared to other roles. Seems that no one wants to play tank. I wonder why.

Let’s fix his kit with a rework:

At the moment Life weaver’s problems come from a lack of offensive utility, and from only getting value by moving his teammates, often without their consent, so let’s change his kit.

Petal: Petal now upon reselect will rotate up and act in a similar manner to Ramattra shield. This doesn’t work in the raised position, and is selected in a manner similar to Nano, so if you intend to throw another petal elsewhere, it won’t take away your ability to throw it.

This changes petal into an ability that when used can actually help hold a position, rather than just being mainly used for running from flankers, or setting someone up on high ground. This is a straight buff.

Life Grip: Life grip now becomes an enabling offensive ability which functions similar to Zarya bubble. Upon initial activating it becomes a 2 second bubble with 250 health that heals the target for 25% of the damage dealt to the bubble, If the person in the bubble presses F, it will then activate the grip and pull them backwards.

If the player does not use the pull, the cool down is 8 seconds, being of a similar power to Zarya (with the healing being there since it doesn’t charge Life Weaver as Zarya’s does.

If the player being gripped uses the pull, the cool down now becomes 16 seconds.

What this change allows is for Life Weaver’s ability to be used in a way that doesn’t actively undermine a position, it helps prevent snowballs, enables players to do their jobs, and doesn’t ruin their agency.

But you all play this same game. What do you think? Do you think that when they overbuff him to the point of being launch Brig, that the game will be more fun for both teams? Do you think 10 second Life Grips will make tanks enjoy the game more?

Do you think that Life Weaver can be played into high ranks despite his lack of any relevant value? Do you think there’s literally any reason to pick him over other supports?

Do you think I’m wrong about this? If so why? Why do you think Life Weaver works for you?

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I’m not a college professor looking to practice marking a thesis, so I’ll pass. you’re going to struggle to find anyone willing to read all of this.

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Cool. But I’ll have it to refer back to when someone tries to tell me that I haven’t considered the hero, or looked at why they’re a failure. Or tries to tell me I’m not good at working with Life Weaver.

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Even if you refer someone to it, they’re not reading that.

I wouldn’t worry about what others think, you’re allowed to think the hero isn’t great without having to justify yourself.

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I don’t have to. I just have to refer them to whatever section is relevant.

Cool, but I want the devs to know why they made a terrible design. And with how many people here keep trying to say “No no he’s fantastic you’re bronze/overreacting.” I’m going to throw this their way and say “No. This is why he’s bad.”

I appreciate your sentiment though.

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I read all of it but I’m not going to scroll back up the page to look up any of these terms. Sorry bro/broess I’m roughly 10iq points short for that. But I had no idea life grip was implemented so poorly. I thought I was using it correctly to pull back my overextended tanks in my low ranked matches (and maybe at my rank, I am) but it definitely needs to be optional for the person getting pulled. However, why separate the cooldown between pull and no pull?

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Are you making this up? And where did you copy these definitions from?

I endorse this.

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Perfectly fine, I appreciate the attempt!

Bro, and no no, It’s a few thousand words all up filled with terms you likely haven’t encountered unless you’re in the chess community, and plenty of them are esoteric in chess as well. Don’t feel bad if you’re not able to just seamlessly learn them.

A lot of people don’t. It’s kind of just an ability made for bronze-gold/plat and works well there. The issue is how it just makes the game worse at higher elos. Or for people who like having agency.

No that’s what it’s intended for at lower-mid ranks that’s completely correct. Don’t stress too much about your usage of the ability. I’m trying to campaign for a rework of the character, not for the community to suddenly boycott the hero because I know that won’t happen.

:smiley:

The shorter cool down is when the character effectively gets a Zarya bubble (which has a cool down of 10 seconds), and the longer one is a stronger version of the current Life Grip, so it gets a longer cool down. It’s mainly to maintain balance and also to make it feel better for Life Weaver.

It’s a term from the Chess community. The definition there is essentially all about having a good position and not ruin it by changing it iirc. It’s a good term and can apply to Overwatch with a small wording change. Spirit of the Law and all that.

:slight_smile:

The main problems section just says negative bias to me, as well as just complaining to complain

Motion sickness? You’re actually using that as a serious detractor? Because one guy got sick?

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That’s fine if that’s what you think. Justify it. Explain how they aren’t problems.

…I’m not the only person reporting nausea from it. Nor am I the only person on the forums who has been. It jerks you backwards suddenly with little warning and consistently jerks you around along that path to dodge obstacles you can’t see, with one of the most nausea inducing animation curves I’ve seen yet.

Generally speaking, things that reduce the accessibility of the game without a good reason for it aren’t good. If you want to solve just that, make it teleport the player in question instead.

Have you ever considered that you might be losing most of your games that have a Lifeweaver in it because you yourself have stated you will make it your mission to actively avoid being in his LOS just so he can never use grip on you?

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I don’t do that in comp.

Still good of you mention this. It’s important info and I’m happy to clear it up. In competitive matches I will do my best to work with Life Weaver. But that doesn’t remove the problems from him.

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A lot of these definitions are chess terms that have been, seemingly inappropriately, shoehorned into OW2 context in what seems to be a peculiar attempt to overcomplicate simple scenarios.

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That’s a fair opinion. I think that they are useful to the convo and let me illustrate why a hero doesn’t work because the game is more complex than a typical fps. They allow better analysis of what concepts are involved with the game, and help me illustrate my points.

You disagree. That’s fine. Justify it though.

“I have been playing around it and LOSing it so that I am almost never gripped in comp”

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Fair enough. I haven’t done it this season. How’s that?

I appreciate the definition section. But looking at the crux of your discussion, I suspect you could have discussed Lifeweaver’s problems without the more esoteric terms. Or at the very least provided a shortened definition as the word appeared.

And yes, your analysis of Lifeweaver is spot on. He is far too defensive and passive for OW2’s more active and aggressive game style. I suspect he could have worked in OW1 with a fortress/bunker comp.

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Completely valid. It was a bit of a dual intention post to be honest. I really like the terms in question (Have been studying chess the last 3 months), and I see a lot of potential for them being used elsewhere. They’ve entered my vocabulary for coaching and have ended up making vod reviews of scrims more effective. I would like for them to be more well known within the community.

I absolutely could have shortened the definitions as well, but I want them all to be easily understood by people of all skill levels in competitive gaming.

Much appreciated and same. Bunker comps would have adored him. Imagine old Bastion in bunker with him just getting yoinked to the next place to set up on? Would have been a nightmare to break.

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Fair enough. But I’d give it more time since the season has only just started and he has received positive changes.

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I mean sure, but I had a few days to play the crap out of the game with a mixture of myself with friends (where the 18 win streak comes from), as well as a day for solo play with a fair amount of Life Weavers, some of them Masters and above.

A lot of this is coming from a previous season of looking at him in vod reviews of other players games as well as my own. A lot of this is coming from buffed Life Weaver being played by people who also tried to main him in season 4, so a fair amount of them honestly have the experience at this point to be judged as the average Life Weaver of X rank 2 or so seasons from now.

He’s received positive changes, hence why this post looks to illustrate the problems not addressed, what needs addressing, and a potential way to go about it.