Why isn't sniper from TF2 considered broken, unlike Widowmaker?

General Discussion
41

kinda funny how everyone is saying widows secondary fire can get her out of dive situations thats really laughable, its hook or dead and considering her hook is on a longer cooldown than most dive hero’s cooldown thats her weakness. she really needs support from her team if she gets dived like a mercy poket.

the mobility on this game is insane so she does need her toolkit to get her out of tight situations. she is balanced on every ladder except the top rankings where players can hit consistent critical shots which of course isnt easy so you dont see good widows below masters

42

If Widow is on high ground, she doesn’t need to hook to escape - just drop down from the high ground. If the enemy follows her, that is when she uses hook to get back up to the high ground. By that point, the enemy is on the low ground, out of position and has their mobility on cooldown for at least a few seconds. If the enemy doesn’t follow her to low ground, they’re still out of position and exposed for a few seconds - they’ll either die, retreat or wait for their mobility cooldown. Plenty of time for Widowmaker to retreat, take some shots or move to a new position.

The archway on Temple of Anubis Point A is a good example of where attacking Widowmakers can use this strategy effectively.

It’s far easier to deal with an Overwatch sniper using another sniper. Diving them is less efficient.

6 Likes
43

Doesn’t Sniper have a laser dot that lets the enemy team know where he’s aiming from a distance? Whereas you only know where a Widow is aiming after she kills you.

7 Likes
44

He’s somewhat broken, but the difference is that he has low health compared to other classes (unlike Widow), he has no escape options (unlike Widow), so if you get flanked by a Scout and you don’t hit that quickscope headshot you’re usually dead, and he has a fairly bright laser dot that provides a warning to the Sniper’s location (unlike Widow), but good Snipers can still hide that laser and bait the enemy into thinking there’s no Sniper.

1 Like
45

They are a problem but they have a few differences:

  • Level Design
  • Head hitbox size difference
  • Charge time
  • Scoped movement speed
  • Hero mobility options

TF2 has always had much cleaner levels, it’s usually quite easy to spot a sniper, Overwatch has lots of dark maps with very visually cluttered environments and you can pick a skin specifically to blend in and sometimes the map has a red hue which makes the red outline much harder to spot.

There’s just not that many sightlines that Sniper in TF2 can shoot as he’s extremely immobile and poor escape options.

TF2 maps seems to have much greater consideration to Snipers as they are 1/9th of the “heroes” so maps almost always have safe routes built in by design. Overwatch will very typically have chokepoints where the only way to avoid a sniper is with a barrier.

TF2 head hitboxes are MUCH less generous than in Overwatch and the game is notorious for the hats, the hats give a tactical advantage as it means any sniper has to quickly try to interpret another weird sort of shape.

The typical threat is the fully charged up bodyshot due to the unreliability of headshots, still those 150 damage bodyshots are in theory a problem.

TF2 sniper is so much slower when scoped in and must scope in for longer as the time to charge up to a 150 damage bodyshot (5 of the 9 classes have 150HP or less) is INCREDIBLY long.

When TF2 sniper scopes in they’re extremely vulnerable to spies easily getting behind them and backstabbing them, or headshotting them depending on what item unlocks are used.

Pyro has flares which are very effective counter sniper spam, they set them on fire which means they can’t aim and they need to beat a very slow retreat to find healing.

TF2 sniper is so slow when scoped in they struggle to sidestep a rocket fired in their general direction.

Classes like Soldier and Demoman are extremely mobile with blast jumping.

TF2 is a game where classes out maneuver the sniper, in Overwatch it’s typically the other way around, the mobility of TF2 classes is off the chain, have you seen TF2 Soldier rocket jump rollouts?

If you can headshot someone doing this, you earned that kill.

3 Likes
46

'Cause he’s from New Zealand, no one from New Zealand is OP

2 Likes
47

Add some W+M1 Phlog Pyros and that’s all you need for a TF2 match

48

This makes a huge difference with TF2 sniper that is waiting aiming at a corner with the crosshairs levelled at head height, if there’s a wall beyond that corner his opponent can see the red dot and just know that if they duck sniper will miss.

You could move the aim point so it’s hidden but now it’s not a click reaction test, you have to swipe click in response. Combined with the comparatively tiny head hitboxes of TF2, the cluttered character models of all their unlockable hats (which are far more outrageous than Overwatch’s skin unlocks) headshots aren’t quite such a problem.

Overwatch head hitboxes are huge, they’re essentially as wide or wider than the apparent size of the torso, it’s very easy to go for headshots. It really rewards bad aim, you will suck as Widow if you hold your fire until your crosshairs really line up with where the polygons of their head are, for almost all heroes the head hitbox is like they’re wearing a huge invisible goldfish bowl over their head you only need to hit that.

3 Likes
49

It’s such better invisibility, you can walk right next to someone and there won’t be any alert, taking damage only results in the smallest shimmer of the cloak. You can jump on top of people and backstab someone who is backed up into a corner, there’s a good chance they won’t hear you uncloaking.

Sombra’s invisibility is incredibly limited by comparison and while she theoretically has mobility it leaves her on the backfoot to give up her escape option.

50

This is a long range balance check that pretty much every game has had, and has had for a damn good reason.

I really wish blizzard would grasp this one.

But for some reason they like to make long range heroes who can go “lolnope” if you manage to close the distance on them.

5 Likes
51

Grappling hook could be much slower. So the hook shoots out at normal speed but then it slowly draws her in so it’s not a viable escape option and she can’t “overshoot” an edge to fly airborne. So she can still get up to “sniper nests” just can’t easily drop down then zip back up when anyone tries to follow her back down. If she does try to grapple back up then she’ll climb vertically as slow as if she ran horizontally.

To compensate, the range of the grappling hook could be increased to 30m so she can more easily reach very high perches.

Venom mine needs to be remixed as it just makes it too hard to sneak up on her. It’s unnecessary considering how Widow can reach high ground where it’s hard to even get near her. One obvious solution is to have it deal just as much self damage to Widow to discourage her using it so close to her and to use it offensively.

Or more inventively, have Venom Mine be a trap that can only be triggered by Widow shooting it and it has a much wider area of effect. Yeah, I know this is really similar to Ashe’s dynamite but that’s a fun mechanic, a proximity mine isn’t fun.

52

he doesn’t charge a 1 shot in a second and has no mobility

2 Likes
53

In tf2 death of single person have way less meaning to the over all battle most of the times.
Just saying, in overwatch one death can make team fight a lose, in tf2, people were more quickly to be replaced or get back to fight if needed a lot of times. TTK in tf2 was way shorter even if no one was running sniper.
But you can see in tf2 that sniper with perfect aim is op, when you meet hackers and only way to kill them is use medic, or go in larger group and someone might get to him. The perfect aim is not normal tho, thats what also ment to balance him i guess.

54

No mobility, longer charge, no alternative abilities, no wall hacks… Namly the mobility and charge rate.

55

Ill tel you the very secret reason, dont tell any one oke pleasse couse only like high expects can know this;)

It is annn other GAME thats whyyy.
:open_mouth:

56

Have you ever been hit while playing widow? Specially when hit by an Ana. Ur intire screen trills like damn hard.

57

Trimping Demoknight would like to talk sir.

58

In higher competitive widow is way more balanced than sniper.

Sniper in competitive wear Razorback and get surrendered by teammates and sentry to make him very difficult to kill, quick scope is extremely strong component it mean that he doesn’t have to full scope (unless there is heavy, demo and soldier use explosive jump which rarely you will see them with full health) that give snipe more awareness.

Widow getting surrendered by teammate isn’t powerful like in tf2 because barrier exists so she will have to move away and position herself, she need to full scope an entire second to kill anyone.