In this context, a premade is obviously a group of 6 people who have created an existing team structure and know each other.
LFG are just random people that queued through that system instead of the other queue.
A premade is gonna stomp a random lfg group more times than not.
They’re matched against other 6 stacks.
People are complaining that they’re playng the game but it is harder to win. Which flippin’ makes sense: MOre teammates -> better teamwork -> harder to win.
Groups disbanding is a player problem, not a game “flaw.”
But that’s already a premade. You made an LFG group, so it’s a premade group.
It isn’t a premade group. The people in your LFG group are no less random to you than if you were joining using the regular matchmaker.
You don’t know them from Adam. You have not planned with them anything ahead of time, nor can you.
This is wrong. They get into your group based on applying to it per role.
So if you have a tank slot open and a tank comes in, they’re playing tank.
This is MUCH, MUCH better than a bunch of randbros queuing up. It is a big step up from regular MM.
It doesn’t matter. You don’t know them. You have had no prior communication with them. You cannot practice with them. You have no ability to build synergy with them.
There is a vast difference between a team and a group or 6 strangers who randomly ran into each other.
Even if that’s true, if I’m losing less matches, because I’m playing with a more coordinated team, then it really doesn’t matter. And, I have found that to be my experience. Ive been winning more often using LFG than solo queuing.
Punish how? By going up against other stacks? That doesn’t have to be a bad thing, just a more fair, coordinated, and balanced match. Unless you go up against Smurfs, but that could happen to anyone, grouped up or not.
Fair, but even in a role queue system, you might not get the players you want. What if you get 2 Tank players, but both only play Off Tank or Main the same Tank? What if the DPS player decides it’s their “Throw Day”, they don’t/won’t use Voice Chat, etc.
At least in LFG, you can stop some of these issues. You can make the roles you want (and enforce them) and settings you want (like SR gap), ask questions or look at profiles before you get into the match, see if they’ll use a mic beforehand, etc.
Sure, LFG doesn’t “cure” these issues, and you can’t be 100% sure. But, at least you can have more control making your own group.
I make my groups 2 Tank/2 Any/2 Support, for similar reasons. That way we can run 3 Supports and/or 3 Tanks, if needed. It also helps cut down on the 4-5 DPS problem, if you enforce the roles.
Also, I just do this initially. If the same group players together for awhile and the Tank player is like “Could you make me an Any? I also play a really good Junkrat, and would like to switch, if need be.”, I’m cool with that. Once I know we can all get along and no one is looking to troll or throw or Insta lock, I have no issue opening up the group. As the leader, it’s as easy as me, literally, clicking a button.
True. That is a risk. But, it might be more worth it, in the end. And, you could always play some QP first before going right into Comp to see if everyone is “compatible” on your team and make adjustments as needed (kick, discuss who should play what, etc). Things like that.
Is it perfect? No. But it gives you more control than an automated system. All a role queue will give you is 2-2-2. Beyond that, we’ll still be dealing with the same problems as we have now. But, we could also create new ones, like longer queue times.
Well, it can be. 6 randoms grouped together could go up against 6 friends that play day in and day out together. But, I think the benefits outway the risks. Personally, I’m winning more in Comp using LFG than I was solo queuing.
That’s a problem with people, not the system. I found 5 random people using LFG and we played Comp for 6 hrs, and we both won and lost some matches. We only “lost” one player after a couple hours because it was really late where they were, so they went to bed
And, honestly, a lot of the people I found via LFG, I now play with on the regular. You can find good people, it just takes time. At least you have some control in LFG. You’re not just thrown in with 5 complete randoms, match after match.
True, but as long as you don’t have Perfection level standards, you’ll be fine. And, if you do, then that’s your fault, not the fault of the system.
All role queue will do is have 2-2-2. That’s it. It won’t stop people wanting mics or being toxic or stop bad communication/lack of team work.
If anything, it could create issues. Like long queue times vs our standard system now. Also, imagine this scenario: you get two Tank players. One mains D.Va, the other mains Wrecking Ball, and youre on Support and want a Rein. Well, it just so happens one of your DPS (let’s say Junkrat) players also plays Rein and the D.Va player also players Junkrat.
In our current system, these people could talk and switch, if needed. In a 2-2-2 only system, you’re just SOL.
Honestly, if 2-2-2 is our only system, it is going to screw over players like me that play all roles and are willing to switch, if need be. I can’t tell you how many times ive had a similar situation like I said above, in Comp. And, because of our current system, it works. In a 2-2-2 only system, you better pray everyone plays exactly what you need in each role.
You could end up with 2 Off Tanks or a Hanzo and Widow as your only DPS and they can’t secure any kills, etc. Yes, this could still happen now, but at least there is the option to fix it. 2-2-2 will remove that ability. The only thing it will so is great rid of 3-3 and the 4-6 DPS “problem”. But, it won’t fix anything else. And, in reality, will bring in even more issues.
Yeah, I never got that either. When I started doing LFG for Comp, I knew I would be going up against other stacks. Why wouldn’t I be?
And, you know what? I’m cool with that. If I get a coordinated team and I’m going up against the same, then I feel better about my matches. Outside of some Smurf groups, my Comp experience has improved a lot since grouping up. I feel better about my performance and my matches, as a whole. I’m also winning more often than I did solo queuing
In short, the whole 6 v 6 stack thing has worked out really well (for me). I don’t really get the complaints about it. The only reason I could see is if:
All I can say to those is: 1) That’s stupid to expect that. 2) Then make your own group/kick team mates until you find a good match for you. 3) Smurfs happen to everyone. Just try you best and if you lose, accept it, and move on.
You are right, but they are a bit different than a group of 6 friends who know each other well, playing together. Basically, you have 3 options:
Solo queue. You get 5 complete randoms that could play any way with anything
LFG. You still get randoms, but you have more control. You can set roles, SR gap, etc. You can also pre-discuss and look at profiles before getting into a match, etc. But, these people are still random/“untested”
Group up with friends. These are people you’ve played with/talked with before. You know who they play and how they play. You have the advantage that LFG gives you, without the randoms/“untested” players
Yes, #2 and #3 are “pre-made”, but there is a big difference between them.
That’s not a people problem. It is inherent to the system. LFG is people who are queuing in who don’t know each other and matchmaker is choosing to regard that the same as a team built outside of that system, which is nearly exclusively people who do.
So random lfg groups are being matched against premade teams and then proceeding to obviously lose. Once they do, they disband. And you have to go through the process all over again.
LFG does not work, it forces the LFG group to play practiced squads more often than not.
Role Queue is not for people looking for groups but for solo players to find what they perceive to be an ideal world where people cater to what the solo player wants to do, because there is an endless supply of teammate resources just waiting to play the roles they don’t want to play.
Both will fail.
It’s still a people problem. If you losing all the time using LFG, either:
How to solve these issues:
All of these things are issues with people, not the system. Also, the part you said about losing and then people quit. Again, thats not the fault of the system. If someone rage quits, after a loss, you don’t want them in your group any way. They aren’t a reliable player. Find someone who is.
Again, the system is fine. Your issue is with (some of) the people who use it. Plain and simple.
This is literally what I’ve been saying the entire time. And that is an issue with the system. Because it gives no weight to the friends list or how the six stacks are formed.
And “make your own friend team” is not a solution to randoms facing friends teams.
So, you want non-friend teams going up against other non-friend teams? How exactly would we go about this? I, suppose, at least through Xbox, the system could check if you’re friended on there.
But, here’s the thing: 6 stacks, in general, have longer queue times. Even if we somehow spilt them between “Friend” and “Random/LFG” stacks, their queue times will increase by a lot.
Theres times I wait almost 20 mins for a match, already, playing in a 6 stack. So, you want me to wait even longer, just because I play on the regular with some randoms I found on LFG?
That’s not a good “solution” either. So, I’m punished because I found people and worked with them to make a good team of players?
Edit: Also, what do you do with “hybrid” teams? For example, what if only two of my friends are online, so we group up. And, we decided to use LFG to make a 6 stack. That would put us at 3 “friends”/3 “randoms”.
What groups should we play against? Ones that are all friends or LFG randoms? Only groups like us (other hybrids)? Oh, jeez, that would mean we have 3 different 6 stack queues. Which will increase wait times for matches. How long am I expected to wait before I actually get to play the game?
Because LFG is not enforced and as you can see, nobody uses it.
every time i see this used as the reasoning i wonder to myself why people always just presume that theyre playing against a seasoned group of players that have time playing together…
its never another group of 6 random people doing the same as them
not saying its wrong…just wondering why everyone always presumes the worst case scenario
not to mention in a forced role queue you might very well end up with the exact same thing…but its ok then apparantly
The reason people want it is because they want easier wins.
Kids just want to roll the dice, enter a random game of strangers and have them just fulfill their comp dreams without the stress of actually learning how to play together. It isn’t about “getting good at Overwatch,” it’s about getting lucky enough to climb, haha. 
I always felt like this was a weird perspective. People would rather play multiple 15 minute matches in the hopes of getting the one lucky team that actually wants to build the comp they’d like rather than spend 10 minutes building the team they want ahead of time and playing together for multiple matches.
This is part of the issue, I think. People aren’t looking for good gameplay mechanics. After one loss, a player’s salt level just rises to the point of disbanding the team they made.
You would think that forming a team, running through some battles together, rising up in SR and then getting beaten by a team that plays better than yours would be okay. I mean, that sounds like the competitive overwatch dream – practicing every day, learning new tactics and then trying to fight people at your level. Instead however, the culture here is that “I’m supposed to win every match” and when a person loses, they just jump ship and blame it on _____.
Maybe it isn’t exclusive to Overwatch. I remember running plenty of dungeons in MMOs. I loved the teams that would keep trying, wipe after wipe, until we all learned the mechanics. I loved sharing my knowledge with other people who didn’t know. On the flip side, I hated those speed-run groups that implodes when someone slips up somewhere or wastes their time. Maybe the devs are hesitant to reshape their game for those people and want to keep things inviting and enjoyable for all.
They can prioritize matching your premade friends teams with others and just expand the search after x amount of time, they can implement a role queue, they can add weight to your group including friends the way they add weight to having more than one person in your group.
They obviously have to do something because players are not happy with the current system and not enough people are using lfg.
So I realized the way to fix LFG and quickly implement something like RoleQ, is to just restrict LFG to only have 2Flex2Tank2Heal as the only option.
Solves the slowness issue of LFG, and gets something similar to a RoleQ, without all the fancy matchmaker code Jeff said they needed.
And cherry on the top, have weekly lootboxes for LFG, to bump up the usage.
yes you can. filling it up is the problem 
How much time though? Thats the thing. This isn’t a hospital waiting room, it’s a video game. And, I would like to play it.
I’m already (choosing) to wait longer, by using LFG (needing to find team mates) and/or queuing up as a 6 stack. As much as 20 mins per match, as I already told you. Your idea wants me to wait even longer just because you don’t have friends who play the game and/or unwilling to find randoms and work with them to become better. Its ridiculous.
I don’t whine when I’m put against Smurfs (which happens quite a bit on Console) and I don’t rage quit when I get outplayed by “Friend teams”. The only thing that ever irritated me about this game was being matched with randoms that could play any way and with anything. It led you poor team work and communication and it frustrated me. Its why I stopped solo-queuing for Comp. And, all in all, my experience with OW Comp has improved a lot since using LFG.
Basically, what I’m saying is, I took the action/initiative to make my games better. I didn’t demand the devs do it for me. And, you need to do the same. We have the tools at our disposal. You just need to be willing to use them.
I mean, I will admit, are they perfect? No. But every complaint you have had so far, is a player one, not a system one (except maybe the Smurfs, I brought up). But, all in all, if you would put the time and effort in to finding good team mates, and practicing with them, 90% of your issues would be solved.
The only problem that would be left, is Smurfs. But, those are a problem for a lot of players, not just you. Even I see them a lot, playing as a 6 stack. Its something we just have to “deal with”, until they change their system. But, you can change how they you feel about them and how they make you feel. You can decide to take the loss poorly and rage quit, or just accept it and move on.
In short, as I’ve said, almost all your issues are player problems, not a system one. And, you have the tools to fix them. If you put in the time and effort, almost anything will be possible.
Edit:
The best way I can explain this is probably using OWL as an example.
These people are pros, because not only are they skilled as individuals, they are skilled as a team, because they work together and communicate. They also practice to get better.
If you want to improve, you have to do the same. If you’re sick of solo queuing or just filling up your team with people who don’t do what you would like them to, keep trying. Keep trying to find those good team mates. And when you do, practice with them. Both inside and outside of Comp.
If you want to win matches and aren’t interested in “carrying” as a playstyle (which I think is ridiculous in a team based game, anyway, but thats another topic for another thread), then you need to find team mates you can play with. Which means you need to put in the work to find compatible people and then get better with them, so you all can benefit by: climbing or winning games to get guns or whatever your eventual goal is.
The reason your queue is so long is because people aren’t using it. They fix the issues with it and more would be willing to use it, lowering queue times.
Role queue is necissary to lock choices into a 2-2-2 composition. This has 3 major benefits:
Roll based SR, lfg does not take into account how much time you play a certain roll, roll based sr will allow you to ensure if you’re a plat tank but a diamond dps you will be matched with like skilled players.
It makes balancing hero’s much easier. Currently when a hero is balanced they have to be balanced vs all other characters, because you could conceavably play any other hero in their place. This is one of the reasons brig is OPAF when played in a 3 support comp but pretty trash in a 2 support comp. she takes the place of a dps not a support.
It greatly increases the diversity of hero’s abilities that can be added to the game. Currently the dev team have been unable to release a solid rein alternative because instead of being run as an alternative they would likely be run in congruence with rein. You simply can not continue to release heavy utility based hero’s (which 2 of the catagories of hero’s are) that have stacking utility without limiting the number of hero’s you can take in a composition.
TLDR: they are forcing role queue as a means of enforcing 2-2-2 which is necissary for the health of the game