I mean at this point youre the anti sniper version of me being anti 5v5.
I dont think anti nade was considered near as big an issue during 6v6 thanks to more unignorable frontline, and ana having to think more about anti nade since she couldnt just heal herself for free. I still saw some hate for nade though, so I wont say its a perfect ability though.
6v6 is even the answer to snipers since Hammond can go back to being useful, meaning Widow cant sit miles away alone in the back without being annihilated and must group with her team where shes at least reachable.
Even during those days double sniper meta came out though, so realistically the only way to once and for all fix snipers for you would just be removing them, no? Theres no way to make Hanzo or Widow work without oneshots. Its widows entire character, and without it Hanzo just become worse Cree. Funny comparison too because storm arrow would just be his version of fan.
aw, i actually wanted to honestly argue…
its ok, i understand, im pretty scary
Anything that gets in the way of growing the size of the playerbase is disposable.
If you want the game to be played like a tactical shooter, then go play Valorant
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wait, did bro just say that the ballet dancer in spandex is one of the coolest heros in the game?
man forgot the definition of cool
Holy anime villain level line my guy. Overwatch was always the FPS MOBA blend, Snipers are iconic in FPS games. Anything in the way of the growing player base? By what metric do you genuinely think Snipers take away players more than they attract? Its kind of impossible to truly figure that out, and if youre going merely by what people like least then most of this game goes down the drain.
Hammond? Gone
Sombra? Gone
I mean Mercy as an entire character would be removed if community reaction was the end all be all. Shes been a top 5 topic for more than 75% of overwatch’s lifetime.
The problem isn’t Snipers. It’s Snipers with poorly designed Counterplay.
Generally, because those other games either have
- Assault Rifles that kill only slightly slower than Sniper Rifles, with no damage dropoff at range. (CounterStrike, CoD etc)
- Downed players can crawl to cover, and get rezzed by any teammate. (Apex Legends)
- The Sniper is basically hard countered by pretty much anything at closer ranges, and have the lowest health of any character in the game. (Team Fortress 2)
In specific.
- COD/Battlefield have severe damage reduction at range, with extremely bright “Scope Glint”. BattleField even has Reverse damage dropoff at closer ranges.
- Apex, bullet drop, but also you can’t oneshot with the Kraber unless it’s damage boosted with a large stationary deployable. And the Kraber is an extremely rare lategame pickup with limited ammo.
- TF2, the Sniper is extremely squishy with basically no escape when rushed at close range. And a Spy with a Deadringer, Spycicle, and either Enforcer, Diamondback, Ambassador just gets free kills on them.
- Halo, just shooting even 1 point of damage descopes a Sniper, and they get 8 total bullets, with generally shorter ranged maps. Not to mention extremely bright “Scope Glint”. And otherwise just avoid maps you don’t like.
- CS/Valorant, it’s extremely risky to buy sniper rifles for Econ reasons, and otherwise there’s just a ton of smokes/flashes, and the vast majority of the level design is shorter ranges. And otherwise 2 bullets from an Assault Rifle or even 1 Deagle shot is enough to counter right back.
By comparison, with Overwatch:
- Play Sombra
- Hiding behind a wall/barrier 90% of the game is frustrating/boring.
- Trying to dive Widow/Hanzo when they can either easily run away, or drop 425-850 damage in 1.2sec. Is frustrating and unreliable. (Especially when their teammates provide any amount of peel).
- Sniping Snipers with more Snipers, just makes the issue worse for everybody else.
So dumbing it down to “Well Snipers exist, therefore Widow can’t be changed” is both wrong and dishonest.
This is something that many players do not get here…
Mercy and her resurrection is now the only thing in the game that can interact with untelegraphed 1hko… It is the only real “counter play” to it from a support perspective…
Mercy haters are a minority, but they like to make noise, unfortunately the devs listen to the haters and not the people who should listen.
Ive had talks with you a fair bit about snipers but I forget what you say youd do to even address the things, cause all of those points of balance in other games you mention have a reason they cant be implemented in Overwatch.
Im not saying its the wrong decision but would you really just remove them?
Hanzo and Widow are icons to the game, major staples even. How would you rework them to be useful without one shots? Because outright removal of them would cause a bigger uproar than 5v5 v 6v6 ever did.
They aren’t ever going to be removed. We’re 7 years too far beyond that.
But there’s no reason they need to be above the bottom 1/4th pickrate out of 18 DPS heroes.
Or alternatively, give them a Poison/DragonFire DoT on their attacks, and then give them more health and mobility, which would make them probably more enjoyable at middle ELOs. If you’re concerned about popularity and skin sales.
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Widow is a hot mami wym. purple baddie who can shoot you in the face
“hot” is different from cool. significantly different
Ashe is the baddest tho, she my wallpaper lmao
This is unpopular, but Mercy mains get extra hate because many of them are women. Toxic gamers reeeeally don’t like women in gaming spaces and Mercy being a “no skill hero” invites even more hate
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Never said genji was my wallpaper
on wallpaper engine, not literally.
I would argue that genji is better, as genji is “cool”. Though, ashe is cooler than widowmaker.
I get what you say but I see no way to fairly implement this.
It might work for Hanzo, though poison tipped arrows to a guy all about his honor wouldnt work thematically, from a gameplay perspective upping his movement speed, draw speed, projectile speed, and removing the oneshot headshot could probably keep him viable and usable, there would still be INSANE pushback. Their identities are ingrained in oneshots.
Widow would not work at all with this no matter what you do Im afraid. Her entire hero is her oneshot. Its the entire thing. There isnt one thing about this character that isnt entirely centered around her oneshot. Thered be no point in keeping her, she might as well get removed at that point, because without it it wouldnt be the same character.