Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State


#9336

In my opinion, you are overstating the minimal differences

In my opinion, Pharmercy is not a nightmare on either device


#9337

On a completely unrelated note, playing Mercy in 3v3 lockout elimination actually fixes nearly all of her problems.

3 people on a team means only 1 tank (if that) on yours and only 3 sources of damage means that it is much easier to keep up with only 50 HPs.

No respawning makes E Resurrect undeniably incredibly impactful.

Short rounds means Mercy’s sorry excuse of an ult won’t even charge before the round ends.


#9338

Tell that to the rest of the console community who scream for Pharmercy nerfs compared to the much lower complaints of the PC community about the same pairing.

PC and consols need different balancing.


#9339

This, so much this.

People in higher ranks on PC actually have been saying that Pharah is very weak in higher ranks due to hitscan. Mercy doesn’t help her too much either since they can easily shoot her down as well.

There’s a reason why I hate pocketing Pharahs…


#9340

Depends from map though: if you can hover behind corner of the building, it’s not very different from being on the ground, with added benefit of less annoyance from Tracer, Genji and some other heroes without very high jumps or long range.


#9341

This is true. Though, the positioning of Pharahs in Masters is uh… A bit worse than you would expect. At least from my experience. I don’t trust them anymore. :stuck_out_tongue:


#9342

the irony is that people complain that mercy players cant aim and doesn’t need skill to play, but support hero skills rely on surviving and not aiming (the only aim heal mechanic in the game is ana).


#9343

I can remember quite a few times when you answered to a criticism by restating the supposed fact, or by saying something among the lines of “I believe what I said was correct”.
“It is a fact because I believe it to be a fact”

If you lead the horse to water, and the horse doesn’t want to drink even though it has not drunk since a fair amount of time, will you question the sanity of the water and try to find another spot, or simply let the horse die ?

I do not find this answer to be related to the part of my post that you quoted, as my point was more about how an anecdotal experience that matches a statement does not make this statement valid or factual.

Here is the quote

Nonetheless, I’d like to address it.

“To the best of my knowledge, my statements have been either purely facts…”

And that is a problem, if I may give my opinion on it.
Your will to be so factual hinders and disturbs the dialogue by derailing it towards an uninteresting, unrelated and unnecessary argument on semantics.

I’ve said numerous times that current rez makes Mercy immobile.
I perfectly know that this is factually false. However, the loss in movement speed is so harsh that it might as well be true, there would be little to no difference in my opinion. As such, I accept to be factually wrong by exagerating a bit in order to portray better my passionate disdain for this ability.

“…or have factually lined up with my experience”


Here is a statement from you in this thread.

Mass rez incentivized a healer to not heal her team

And there is the answer you brought up to support the previous claim.

Factually, I saw Mercys choosing to withhold healing happen, many times

Acording to these quotes “mass rez incentivized a healer to not heal her team [because] factually, I saw Mercys choosing to withhold healing happen, many times”

The above assertions are in correlation with one another. However, “I saw it happen” is an anecdotal claim and does not warrant the former assertion to be true.
I’ll say it again:

I agree with that, and that’s fine.
However participating in the conversation by trying to answer every question one asks you will give more credit to your arguments.

For example, if I make a thread to say “I don’t like current Mercy; I think we should go back to mass rez Mercy” but also never answer when someone asks me why I don’t enjoy current Mercy, most people will probably stop taking me seriously and may even start labelling me as a troll and flag me.

I’m not saying you are in a similar situation, or that you must answer each and every question one ever asks, but that further explainations of your reasoning are welcome and will help other people understanding your point of view by opening the dialogue.

I personally highely recommend giving again links and/or explainations to someone who is asking for them. In my oponion, doing so shows a will to cooperate.

So let me get this straight:
“Mass rez was unhealthy because I saw bad people using the ability in an unintended way”

Which is not only an anecdotal claim (“I saw it happen”), but also completely absurd. Were you expecting anything else from low level players ?

I would be glad to be proved wrong in your following posts.




Allow me to jump into that discussion with an analogy.

Someone is playing heads or tails and after a fair amount of tries, they notice that an overwhelming amount of coins landed on tails.
Surprised by this outcome, they conclude that the coin was rigged.

Is this reaction valid ? I’ll let you build your opinion before explaining.

As you should know, the odds of the coin landing on tails are of a half (0.5, or 50% if you prefer) for each toss. Statistically, after a fair amount of tries, the odds are that half of the coins will land on tails, and the other half will land on heads.
But technically, if this experiment is reproduced by hundreds of people, it is not impossible that a few of them have witnessed that a majority (or even all) of the coins land on either of the sides without the coin being rigged.

In this analogy, the coin represents the use of mass rez, the statistics are the ones Titanium explained some posts ago, the hundreds of heads and tails players are the Overwatch community, and the initial player is you: Megadodo.


#9344

To sumarise, “something that does not exist in another game should not exist in this game”.
I strongly question the validity of this reasoning.
I would even go so far as saying that this reasoning can hardly be taken as “reasoning”, or even be refered as such, since there is nothing logic in it.
It not only defeats the purpose of making an original, unique game, but also does not make sense at all to begin with.

Why should the way other games are designed impact how Overwatch should be designed ? Why should the presence or absence of an ability in those games dictate the presence or absence of similar abilities in Overwatch ?

And that is exactly why I think it has a place in this game.

Is this an out of season April’s fool joke ?
Virtually leaving the battlefield for 1.75s in Overwatch is not fair. It is not a good design choice.
Switching from damage boost to healing and vice-versa does not take 1.75s of your hero being useless and slowed for 75%.

No other hero has to commit for 1.75s while slowed for 75% to perform any ability.
Why is that suddenly fair for Mercy ?

You seem to be focusing a lot on the hide and rez aspect, and keep on implying that it was a design problem while in reality it was a reward problem as N7 already explained. Why is this so difficult ?


#9345

I am aware of complaints from players on all devices, not just console.

I am aware the blizzard has at times balanced certain specific items differently on console than on pc. I don’t believe there is good justification to do so for the vast majority of cases


#9346

Hey there, friend.

Poor summary, friendo. We experienced problematic elements of Mass Rez in this game. To the point it was removed. We’re now considering going back on that, and reinstating it in the game. Thus why I was curious of other examples of Mass Rez being used successfully. Thus far, I have none.

This also ties into the common argument for Mass Rez that basically says “well Rez exists in other games.” Yes, it does. Not Mass Rez though. Is that clear now?

It doesn’t dictate thee presence or absence in Overwatch. The time period where we had Mass Rez and it was removed is what dictated the absence of it in Overwatch. My asking for examples of Mass Rez in other games again goes toward trying to find options where it worked.

Cool, I guess. That’s a nice opinion. Reasons? Just for unique points? Screw the gameplay elements?

It is, as I’m having to explain the obvious so often it seems.

Leaving the battlefield? Odd choice of words. Considering the 5m restriction and cast time on Rez, it seems you aren’t able to leave the battlefield. Compare that to what Mass Rez promoted in certain tiers.

Why does another hero have to have the same restrictions? Wouldn’t this tie into what you said earlier?

Change games to abilities and overwatch to Rez. Mind blown.

It is inherent to the 1:1-5. You are rewarded by bringing up potentially 5 people. Every version of 1:1-5 has that potential. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be 1:1-5. Again, obvious.

No idea. Any more questions?


#9347

It’s closer to Coalescence than it is to Trans or Sound Barrier. That’s what I’m saying I prefer. Whereas Mass Rez was closer to Trans and Sound Barrier.

I see many people saying it’s the AoE element of Valk they don’t like. As for burst, sure, in a similar way to how Coalescence bursts imho.


#9348

You get a biscuit for trying to do some research. Also, the change that makes consoles different from PC is that Torbjorn’s turret reacts and locks on just a bit slower, to allow for controller input lag.


#9349

… I’ve been noticed :no_mouth:


#9350

What’s also clear is that there are only few games like Overwatch, which is why –

Also:


#9351

I beg to differ on this generalized description that a certain ‘Screaming Monkey’ keeps perpetuating, due to:

  • Lucio - doesn’t aim for healing since it is an AOE, but has to aim to contribute damage.
  • Zenyatta - Has to aim to contribute damage, Discord, and healing.
  • Ana - Has to aim for everything, even nade has to be aimed somewhat.
  • Brigitte - has to aim to give out Armor as well as melee attacks.
  • Moria - has soft lock for damage (actually has same hit box as Zaria but animation puts it to dead center of enemies), a cone spray healing, and orbs that once released bounce off walls for damage or healing.
  • Mercy - anyone who actually plays Mercy knows that if the team is grouped up Mercy has to aim very well to either damage boost or heal the correct teammate even though the beam hard locks on once connected, then there is going Battle Mercy where her aim is key since her shots are slower on release. The only time that boosting and healing aiming doesn’t really matter is when her team is grouped up during her Ultimate since the beam splits once it connects to one member of the party.

So, contrary to common opinions perpetuated by some streamers and Pros, the only truly ‘No Aim’ healing is Lucio since it is an AOE. I really wish people would stop this whole “No aim, no brain hero” stuff that started with the ‘Screaming Monkey’s’ stream and perpetuated by his followers because it just isn’t true.


#9352

i would add Brigitte to that category,(AOE healing, and repair pack auto lock on)

and i agree,
most healers have to aim but that’s because they’re designed that way, I find Moira, in particular, to be one of most unbalanced heroes in the game as she can heal and dmg simultaneously yet, both skills of surviving and aiming needed to play her are low.

making it harder to kill her, this also counts for Brigitte, and it’s partially why goats became a thing.

i still think old mercy was better for the game, even if people complained about hid and rez,
it allowed players to hold on to there ults and think more strategically, and if they use their ults, than there first job is to kill the support, avoiding the huge rezz.

mercy nowadays feels slow and sluggish, struggling to keep up with Moira and ana when it comes down, and the lack of utility and dps makes that shes also is incapable of being a secondary healer.

the gameplay for mercy uses to be juggling beams and allowing every player to stay alive, while flying in between them to survive.
now its can i rezz this person without getting killed by the widow and is my team ok without me when im resizing, leaving your team behind with 1 less support to helping them out.


#9353

I guess Mass Rez doesn’t belong in WOW either, or other games like this. Sure, in other FPS games Mass Rez is absent, but Overwatch was built to be more than what other FPS games ever dreamed of becoming. Too bad all the Balance changes, directed by so called ‘Pro Players’, have weakened the game since ‘THEY’ have started letting OWL dictate what is good for the game.
However:

No, they do not. But balance wise, before ‘THEY’ threw out this unnecessary Rework, a Mass Rez (1-5 people) WITH a Healing AOE for teammates that were not dead yet would have been a much better way to go than making Mercy an OP monster. Or putting in several tweaks to limit or even eliminate “Hide and Rez” from the game. Some were put in place, 1 week before Rework Release.

  • SR Exploit- one of the MAIN reasons that people in High ELO were using it.
  • Rez from Spawn- so that on certain 2 CP maps Mercy had to be outside Spawn to Rez teammates.

Others were not even tried:

  • Removal of Invulnerability- good basic idea since Mercy was always dying when she attempted a 4 or 5 man Rez, but it made it a guaranteed success. Especially since-
  • Rez at beginning of casting- a 1 second cast time would have allowed a counter to Mass Rez, which it was lacking since game release.

The thing is, there were measures that could have been used to ‘Balance’ Mass Rez in the game, rather than making Mercy so OP with the rework. An often, as seen by the ‘Screaming Monkey’ among other streamers on many occasions, it was Mercy’s Teammates that WANTED (and were screaming at) Mercy to stop healing and hide so that if the team died Mass Rez would be available. It was ‘Alway’s Mercy’s fault’ if she died with Mass Rez still available and the team got wiped, but none of Mercy’s teammates were to blame for not protecting her from flankers even though switching from staff to her pop-gun took time and by the time most had switched, unlike every other healer who doesn’t have to switch weapons, Mercy was at low health or already dead. An Mercy players got, and STILL get, yelled at if they stop Healing or Damage Boosting for any part of the match.
I had a wonderful game when I received POG a couple of weeks ago where I had to go full on Battle Mercy while still in Valkyrie (for half the time, it ran out on me while I was taking them out), because my team was out of position and the enemy team had slipped past them. I got a Quad Kill as Mercy. Well, THAT went over like a Lead Balloon, 5 of my group of a 6 pack team solo left before the end of the POG since I, as a Mercy player, had out-shown the DPS and Tanks even though it had won us game because of it.
But what many Mercy players keep going on about is that Mass Rez could be tweaked, Valkyrie has been reduced to a lackluster Ultimate compared to Mass Rez unless one goes Battle Mercy. An they even Nerfed that. Unlimited Ammo still remains, but they removed the added Damage that Valkyrie had because, once again, it was “Unfun to play against”… Looks to me like ‘THEY’ are punishing Mercy players because people play Mercy…


#9354

I have to disagree here. Mass res had issues, sure, but non of them were fundamental.
Those problems were no preventive counter play, the SR exploit and the missing midfight power in her kit. Just to outline the issues it really had.

Nothing of that is unfixable or game breaking, only stuff which could, if changed properly, increase the player experience for everyone (That means playing as her, with her and against her) in a positive way.

You can’t compare the Mass Resurrect mechanic from Overwatch to other ress in other games.
Your statement goes down to ‘multiple resurrect’s at the same time is unbalanced and therefore can’t work’ (If you mean something else, you may need to elaborate on that) which we already know is wrong because Mass Res was infact balanced. Mercy was never really Meta. Only after the mid of S5 but that was not because of Mercy being too strong, but more because of Ana which was overnerfed at that time as well as just not fit for Dive.

Overwatch made more than enough adjustments to justify Mass Res fundamentally. And it worked absolutely fine. Other games did not have adjustments to justify a Mass Res and thats why something like that would be an issue in other games.

So… no. Fundamental design issues were nonexistent on Mass Res.

Valkyrie on the other hand is indeed fundamentally flawed and that in many ways. That starts by contradicting her gameplay by removing weaknesses and goes to the pure fact that Mercy’s base kit can’t be powered up by a transformation Ult properly.
It also has many other flaws which appear at the surface of it like that it’s overall more an E ability than an Ult or that it’s not empowering res and such things.


#9355

Probably only “issue” of mass resurrect was being strictly defensive ult. Where other ults could be used by advancing team as much as defending, mass resurrect was tied to area teammates died into. Obviously, it didn’t fit playstyle of “pros”, and rest is in update history.