Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State

I’ve always noticed…
Low elo people tend to blame enemy heroes’ op-ness/unfairness (or allies uselessness) when they die or lose a match.
“Omg Widow is too op she can one shot me !”
“Omg Mercy rezzed her entire team there’s no counterplay !”

In any game I’ve played, I’ve always heard and learnt -partially from pro players- that the key to learn and loosing less games was to learn from your mistakes how to counter or prevent enemies from getting value, ie
“I should not stay out in the open when they have a Widow…”
“Keeping ults will be useful for when Mercy will revive them all…”

Meanwhile, pro players loosing to a mass resurrection:
“Omg I willingly let the highest priority in the game alive and now she undone all my Q pressTM ! That’s so op and unfair !”

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Even playing Mercy I never thought Widowmaker was bad, I either killed her outright (she 1-shotted me from top statue on Kings Row, I shot her 5 times in the head from spawn) or at the very least ran her off when no one else had eyes on her.

An then, once the Rework went live they REALLY got upset because then Mercy really was Over Powered. An I ain’t even going to go over again how a ‘Flockless Sea Bird’ completely ignored Mercy while going in for his sick kills, or tried to an Mercy (with 60 hps pre-Rework) was able to keep a Genji alive that he was aiming for instead of healing a tank.

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The AOE impact being fairly quick makes a difference.

Valkyrie is slow and takes too much away from the player.

Mercy can’t have one of each in different sections because it would make her too far out of balance because high mobility and reliability comes at the cost of base heals being limited to “just enough” and not having access to burst (E Rez) and AOE (Valkyrie, with all it’s other stuff) result in complete imbalance.

Mercy needs vulnerabilities, her ultimate should not take away some of her greatest vulnerabilities. Learning to work around them is important, pressing Q and just whooshing away on your own terms is not balanced for a hero like Mercy. Learning to use her pistol, with limited ammo and being unable to whoosh wherever you want was part of her vulnerabilities. Not being able to space boost whenever you wanted is also a bit much IMO.

EG. I would like to remove GA Sling Boost as it is now and give Mercy a unique jump boost on space bar like Hanzo but instead it just goes up, enough to maybe fly to someone just out of sight on a ledge, BUT if you use it whilst using GA it can do the slingboost but it goes on cooldown like a jump boost would.
You can still use it like now, just not as frequently. She already had decent mobility, she doesn’t need the jump boost all the time and sacrificing some of that mobility still leaves room for an E that can raise her skill floor slightly, Pacify is still a decent contender.
Then that leaves the ultimate, I’d leave off resurrection entirely and just go for an ult that pulses like 40 burst heals around her for like 5 pulses (one a second), this means she can heal exactly 200 health in total. Which means she could hopefully just save squishies during a non ult team fight. A good tempo ult. She would still have to manually heal her tanks, but it gives her much needed time. You can still lower those numbers but I feel 40 is fair, you can still do 40 damage in a second and take people out in that time, but it also means she could break even in certain fights if people don’t focus.

But these are still just ideas that I am bouncing around.
Each pulse instantly applies the 40, this prevents it from stepping on the toes of any other ult and isn’t as strong as Sound Barrier or Trans.

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Hello again, my friends. Here we go. Hopefully I won’t miss anything of note.

WoW is nothing like this. Could you please explain to me the details of how Mass Rez works in WoW? Are we talking like PvP environment I hope? When it comes to dungeons, PVE, and such, well I can think of a lot of “Mass Rez” type skills/items in various party based JRPGs and stuff like that. PVE is a different beast.

Overwatch being different doesn’t excuse anything. It doesn’t really matter. It’s not like they should implement outlandish things into the game just for the seek of uniqueness. Sure, let’s give a hero a guaranteed one shot kill on ANYONE barrier or not. It’s different, right? It’s unique. That’s what Overwatch is about, right?

Give me a break…

Blaming the pros is your own personal thing. It’s totally irrelevant to the conversation. Please just keep that stuff out of it.

Thank God. Progress.

What you define as “better” in this situation is completely subjective. You’re still dealing with the 1:1-5 mechanic. Rez will be prioritized more, and the burst heal doesn’t really impact the 1:1-5 mechanic. Sure you can use it in more situations, but still Rez aspects will be core. Otherwise, why do you need 1:1-5? Why not just burst heal on Valk?

All you’re doing is gimping the ability. Making it a worst version of what it was. With instant cast, invuln, etc, it was still a trash ult in organized settings. Used to bring up 1 person. Then you’re just going to hard gimp the ult for the sake of it, and then replace E Rez with some magical ability that makes it all good? And that’s going to have her viable in organized settings? Iunno…

Our opinions of balance differ. I see no reason to want Mass Rez in the game to justify all this haphazard stuff. The mechanic of 1:1-5 isn’t a good one in my opinion. Why are you saying it is? Cuz it felt good?

Yes. As everyone was gaming the 1:1-5 mechanic. Once that was removed, and we went to 1:1 rez mechanic, all that disappeared. That’s good.

I know. I played Mercy during all the times. Not as a main but a LOT. I don’t miss it.

Anything could be done. Mass Rez was moved away from. Anything could be done with Valk. Maybe work with what we have instead of clinging so hard to a mechanic that proved problematic.

The problem was also that it was just used to bring up Pharah in coordinated play. Because in a coordinated setting, you kill the Mercy first. Mercy never gets a chance to do some big brain multirez play. Mass Rez was a trash ult. Why commit so hard to it? For feelz?

Yeah because there’s nothing to compare it to. I have to believe there is a reason for that.

No. You totally misunderstand me. “Multiple resurrects at the same time is either trash or problematic, therefore, shouldn’t be bothered with.”

I consider Mass Rez a terrible ultimate. I don’t see reason to try and make it work. That’s not even getting into the problematic elements of it and how it played out in mid tiers and the hide and rez and all that. So when you just nerf the crap out of the ult to basically mean even outside of organized settings she can only use it for 1-2 people, it’s like why? E Rez is better at that point in so many ways.

No. It didn’t work absolutely fine. Obviously. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be gone.

Wtf?

Yeah you definitely didn’t convince me, man. Good try though.

LOL yeah okay.

And having an ult that depends on multiple team mates being dead doesn’t contradict that? To allow multiple team mates to die in essence in a specific spot during a specific time, is not contradictory to her gameplay? A kit that is full on support and enable? Keep alive and enhance?

I gotta say. You just come off as bias to me man. You talk about Overwatch being SO UNIQUE that IT is the one to pull the Mass Rez. The moment gamers have been waiting for. You don’t say what those reasons are though. All you have is that you had it once and you liked it tbh.

pBias…

By pro standards, it didn’t happen.

Yo. Show me some examples of pro playeers losing to Mass Resurrect. Like tournament wise. I’d love to see one.

Zen has no mobility options. He is slow, vulnerable, yet he has his offensive abilities to deal with threats. Low healing. When he ults, moves really fast, is invulnerable, can’t use his offensive abilities, can’t discord, can’t move harmony orb, and heals for 300 hps around him.

SUCH SEVERE GAMEPLAY CONTRADICTION!!! HOW CAN THAT BE?

I’m not saying Valk is great. I’m not saying it cant be changed. I don’t really agree with your “needs vulnerabilities” bit, but I mean we’re talking more about subjective feeling than we are raw gameplay mechanics now aren’t we?

That said, I’m all for discussing changes that don’t involve 1:1-5 rez mechanic. Right now, I’m on an end 1:1-5 rez mechanic discussion kick.

I hope that covers the responses that related to the 1:1-5 mechanic.

Arcalias, please point to point my response to you I’d be interested in seeing it.

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Zen has to sacrifice his strengths for a different strength.
There is a choice through thought of if he uses this big moment now or will he need it later. Will making this play now and sacrificing damage be worth it? Or can we eliminate them with my damage and save my powerful ult.

There is more to it.
There is more there.
He is fairly high skill as is, to take some of that usual skillfulness away in order to challenge game sense, isn’t necessarily bad or contradictory.

Mercy already has high mobility and takes a lot less mechanical skill and thus an ultimate on her should not take away that many of her vulnerabilities because she needs to be challenged. Those challenges are what define how skillful someone is at playing Mercy because otherwise you truly are playing a skillless, easy and brain dead hero. No one who plays Mercy feels that she is this way, except when it comes to Valkyrie and people who are unhappy about Mercy’s current state with Valkyrie because Valkyrie does exactly that which limits a player from showing skills.

It is not a severe contradiction of gameplay because of what those characters are expected to deal with.

A character with a mechanically easier time needs to possess awareness and game sense challenges that should not have many of their challenges taken away under many, if any at all, circumstances.

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And you can sacrifice elements of your kit, swap to pistol, and make a huge play. Or, you can stay on staff, and continue doing your job to a much higher degree.

There is more to it.
There is more there. Even there in Valk.

I’m not saying Valk is the answer. You are talking about feeling here purely though it would seem. I agree, we can hopefully do more to accommodate those feelings. I don’t see how Valk is so horrible as some play it out to be though. I don’t think the discussion benefits from people trying to play Valk as some terrible abomination.

When I’m playing Tracer I literally blink twice, press Q, and then press E after dumping a clip ideally. Orisa just drops a drum circle. Ana just fires off a Nano, that sometimes lands on a wall riding Lucio.

Lots of ults don’t bring a great amount of feelings. But I understand where you’re coming from.

Iunno dude. I see huge difference between good and bad Mercies. Gold and Diamonds. The kit does via GA tech and such offer a fair amount of skill expression.

Not saying that excuses how things are, or says how you feel doesn’t matter. What you say and feel does matter. I just ask we realistically seek to adjust what we have as opposed to saying it’s all just so bad and needs to be thrown away.

Edit: I know that last sentence can easily apply to how Mass Rez was. However, I would then cite my arguments against the 1:1-5 mechanic, and also remind that it was moved away from and has been so for over a year now. I’d also then remind that I personally just don’t see a reason why it’s so important for 1:1-5 to be in this game.

I’d again reiterate that I feel a lot of it comes down to bias and feelings. In a lot of ways, there will be nothing that gives you that same “feeling” that Mass Rez did. Cold fact.

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Question: how come 1:1-5 kill mechanics are okay? There are plenty of ults that can completely wipe an entire team in a single blow. They all have limitations and need amazing planning/execution in order to do it, but they’re still capable of it. Why do those standards not apply to rez?

If those ults didn’t exist, I’d consider multirez to be much more powerful than I currently do. But the restorative power of multirez is outnumbered by (around) sixteen ults in the game that are capable of killing 6 people at once. Multirez could erase one teamkill, but that value is cheapened when the’res a line of ults waiting to repeat the performance. It’s why “huge rezzes” were never viable in pro play.

I’d actually be okay if mulitrez came back in a form that pros only ever use it for solo rezzing. That’s what they do with Mercy now anyways.

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Because mass resurrect required 2 ults: one to make Mercy use her ult, and second to repeat team wipe. Any other defensive ult could be defeated with only one offensive.

But since ults usually not used alone, it wasn’t supposed to be a problem.

But that ignores tempo rezzing.

If Mercy tempo rezzes (the best way to use the ult), that’s a green light to start whombo comboing without any consequences. You could bait out an enemy tempo rez with proper coordination and target priority.

How is it best way, if it gives green light to team wipe?

It’s great, if your team is already dominating the fight, but you lost some key players and need them to finish off remaining enemies.

Better safe, than sorry, I suppose.

It keeps momentum from being lost (by keeping man advantage) and the fight in Mercy’s team’s favor. For example, your push is screwed if Reinhardt dies early in the push. Huge rez is nice and flashy, but it’s an attempt to recover momentum that’s already been lost.

Deciding whether a tempo rez would bait out enemy ults or not was a higher-level Mercy skill. Mind games.

It’s if your team had advantage, to begin with. One often has to be created, and that means enduring deaths of your main tank, and most other teammates, best case with ults spent on them.

Tempo rez was overlooked as a pushing tool.

It kept momentum going as much as a well-timed beat drop or nanoboost.

Well, I never had momentum to begin with in any of my games. Was like western duels - whoever tries attacking first loses :woman_shrugging:

I’m one of those aggressive Mercies. I used tempo rez and some good old fashioned “LET’S MOVE MOVE MOVE!!” over voice chat to get my team onto the point without any casualties.

It was great for getting timid tanks to suck it up and push. I just had to dangle their security blanket in front of them remind them that I had rez in case something goes wrong.

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I am passive kind of Mercy, that will patiently wait, while healing from nearby cover, until other team loses patience and starts throwing ults.

Issue wasn’t with lack of pushing from teammates, but with their reckless charging into fight.

My aggressive playstyle could get me another rez in between tempo-rezzing at the choke and ults being thrown on point. I had to juggle beams like mad and pepper in some pistol fire to do it, but that’s what made Mercy so thrilling for me.

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Never felt a thrill from that. Thrill was from those moments, when your plan is being tested by reality. Did you include behavior of all players in your calculations? Will plan hold, or one unexpected action will ruin everything?

Oh, I had those moments, too.

Mercy 1.0 was like having diner dash on one screen, FNAF on another, and playing them both at the same time.

Absolutely! It played into Mercy’s hero fantasy (for me at least) of being a holy arbiter of judgement. Good players got my blessing, and bad ones were condemned by my hand. Muahahahaha!

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For me Overwatch never was game about fast actions, so it never felt enjoyable to be forced into one. While I still can beam juggle and use pistol, it doesn’t bring me any fun. Simply because it became a habit to switch between teammates during playing TF2.