Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State


#9312

There have been multiple suggestions that deal with before people die, but we already know that bringing back someone from the dead does nothing to guarantee success, but saving your team from a wipe before they die often does more for a team’s chance of success.

I’d be more than willing to have one that would hold people on the brink of death for example, but it would still provide no counter play.

Mass Invulnerability, but still no counterplay.

You can’t give Mercy something as impactful as Moira’s ult even though they are in the same sort of support area, because it would be considered unfair because she is “too easy”.

You can’t give her something like Valkyrie because it does nothing to excite or make the player feel empowered because you are doing the same things you are already doing.

You can’t give her Resurrect because people have a complete and biased hatred toward it even though she was never OP in the lifetime of it and only ever reached a decent state when they added the invulnerability nobody wanted.

You can’t keep E Rez on her because it is still far too powerful and it is not fun to turn into a snail for a regular ability, no one else except Sym and Reaper are forced to struggle for regular abilities. For example, in a fast paced game like Overwatch, Sym and Reaper’s teleports should be fairly quick to make, it should take years and it shouldn’t make them as vulnerable and easy targets as it does make them because being still makes you an easy target which shouldn’t be considered fun to play or play against because no one should be okay with taking cheap kills especially when they have far superior kits to take advantage of. This is the same for Mercy and snail Rez.


#9313

Like I said, not here to dive into this with you as there’s no point. Feel what you feel.


#9314

It’s logic, not feeling. You can hide wherever you want, it’s still hiding. It returned, as soon as resurrect got slowdown and cast time.


#9315

Like I said, fine with all conversation talking about alternatives to Valk and all that. Just no 1:1-5 mass rez mechanic.

Had Mercy not recieved the recent -10 hps nerf, all that’d be different is her ult was changed and she gained rez on an E. I don’t get stricken with some terrible experience when I press E for a cast time and a slow. Instant rez was broken there was no denying that. I’m all for compromise, but how it is now works. That is if you don’t get afflicted with some insufferable experience every time you press E to reez someone.

Like I said. All for exploring diff ways to do stuff. None of which requires 1:1-5 mass rez. Mass rez should be let go of at this point. Been a year.


#9316

People are still hiding, not even just for Rez.

If an ult is coming and I know my tank is about to fail me and my team, I will still bail and hide even without Mass Rez. It hasn’t made a difference, I am still not going to heal during the moments before that ult, but instead I am doing nothing after it until my team gets back. But better them then me because I learned to have awareness and know my position. I deserve to live because I can see what it happening around me. As a support I would like to think I deserve a chance to save some of them, maybe stall for a little bit of time, but this version of Mercy says differently.


#9317

Yeah you’re wrong, imho. Like really wrong. But feel free to perceive it any way you want. I’m not about to go into detail explaining why I feel youre wrong.


#9318

You still didn’t bring any argument, that makes me wrong.

Even with Valkyrie used to heal teammates from safer distance, it’s still better to remain next to corner, in case someone tries to ult you. And like before, you just leave team behind, if it’s clear, that your healing isn’t enough for them to live.
It’s “completely different”, because you have to wait for teammates to come back, instead of making them return faster?


#9319

The hiding is completely different.

False equivalency. Why is this so difficult?

Google Mercy hiding spots. Find me ANYTHING like that going on now.

If you bail and hide now, you’re bailing and hiding like anyone else would. You’re not going to sit in a corner and wait for 3+ of your team mates to die, then GA out and pop your Rez button. As you’d only be rezzing 1 of them. And you’d both die again. Mass Rez you bring them all up, thus why you hid.

The hiding is not the same.

False equivalency.


#9320

I don’t deny that.

I don’t agree that a cast time and a slow that makes you go as slow as Mcree during high noon which guarantees his death the higher you go, is fair FOR A REGULAR ABILITY.

Point me to an ability that has those ultimate punishments on them.
Besides from Reaper and Sym who have their painful teleports that get them killed because of design and they should be reworked to suit the pace of the game, I see no other ability that sabotages a player that hard.

You can’t even crouch or shoot back or heal during a single rez. You are a free kill, plain and simple. How is it fair that you don’t even allow a player for the regular ability to do anything other than move at a snails pace and spin your mouse so hard that you hope they don’t see your head (which makes many people laugh because they either get distracted just by the sheer sight of it or are amused by how vaguely effective it is at low ranks because it is hard to aim up some who is spinning like a maniac).

Abilties are supposed to feel fluid and their punishments are simply supposed to be a cooldown because they are a strong bonus but not strong enough that the game expects you to earn them. They enhance gameplay at the cost of a cooldown, E Rez does more to punish the player simply because it is too strong to be there in the first place, those punishments wouldn’t exist if tempo rez was the crappier option.


#9321

I don’t really have a criteria of what a regular ability should be tbh. I find the terms and restrictions placed on Rez are fair. I don’t have some massive issue with them. Instant was too much, when the slow was announced I argued against it. I can see how it might be necessary, or how it might be too much. I don’t have some HUGE OMG THIS HURTS ME PHYSICALLY type reaction to it being in play.

At least now none of what you’ve said has dealt with 1:1-5. So that’s good. I can agree with a lot of what you said, and having 1:1 work in a way that was balanced and more user friendly would be great. How that’d happen though I’m not sure.


#9322

I can hide as Lucio or Zen to lure people in wasting their strong ult so I can use mine and save my team.
It has the same impact, except the team mates live to have an immediate return fire and have the greater possibility of wiping.

The hiding of the Lucio or Zen to trick people and save people is still hiding to ult.


#9323

And you realize the massive and very fundamental difference right? Lucio and Zen don’t benefit in any way from one of their team mates dying just before they ult. That’s actually a massive loss. Mass Rez you’re needing them to die in order to use it.

Very big difference. Thus the difference in the hiding. False equivalency.


#9324

Hiding is hiding.
It is still stopping doing something in order for greater gain later down the track.

You provide an ult where Mercy doesn’t have to wait for her team to die, well that’s great let’s do that then because her healing in any form cannot support her team reliably without a last line of defense that she has to be cautious to use.

Her old design had her give up much independence and offensive capability in order to benefit her team in the form of team reliant mobility and single target heals that only just pushed her into a bracket of main healer. Her discretion is used to come up with the best ways to juggle the heals to keep her team standing until she could no longer hold them. Which is why she had the weaker saving ult, it was very sketchy, hard to pull off successfully if you tried to get the maximum number, had a lot of thought to it but it was her last resort that gave her AOE and Burst impact, which are what other supports can have access to regularly. A saving ult or even just the charges of pulse healing I mentioned earlier dropping the rez (maybe it overheals instead if she uses it before the fight?) so that it can be used similarly as a tempo support ult like Moira’s or Ana’s.

People hate people coming back in general. As someone who has been on the opposite ends of mass rez after team wipes with D.va bombs because I was a D.va main before they ruined her, I never found that Mass Rez bothered me and often the time it took for the team to come back resulted in my team pushing aggressively before they could position themselves again which means to me my ult still had impact and mass rez did nothing, it ruined their pacing of the fight and them returning to the fight but them coordinating too slow meant my team could snowball in and wipe without any ultimates. It felt no better than any other saving ult, it felt just as easy to counter as any other saving ultimate.

In fact, I also had many rewipes from Mercy popping rez for a non-ult team wipe, where I threw my ult at the respawning team.

I may play Mercy now, but back then she was not my main and she was easily played around just fine, it just seems people did not look much beyond their initial impact to realise how easy it was to dismantle a team after they resurrected.


#9325

Yeah Mass Rez played out in a lot of different ways depending on the situation, the teams, etc.

I’d like Valk to just be numerically adjusted myself. Play around with it. I think it’s duration can be reduced and power shifted elsewhere in it. I’m fine with how E rez is tbh myself but some people have made it clear it rubs them the wrong way.

I don’t know how I feel about Mercy having a Zen or Lucio style ult. I like her ult being closer to Coalescence myself.


#9326

Welcome to understanding iteration numeration 101. Mercy has had 2 iterations. 1.x and 2.x. 1.x is every version before Valkyrie. 2.x is every iteration of Valkyrie. For being such a wonderful student, you get a biscuit.


#9327

But it isn’t close at all.
And never can be because Mercy’s base level power is too low comparatively and and increasing the numbers to match will still rub people the wrong way. Valkyrie is supposed to be like Coalescence but it never can be because of it’s design.

Moira may heal and damage all the time, but during ult it does it in a unique way to how she was doing it previously, provides her new risk for great value. Valk can never be that way because it is just her beams but you still control one and the rest does it on its own for you, it is just a free movement even though you have GA to make movement on your own, it is easier to escape than to actually worry about your positioning, it’s easier to hide and hold a button, it’s easier to shoot because there are more bullets, it’s rez but you can hover above the corpse even though you can make GA moves to do that already.

It’s everything you already can do, but made easier so that it doesn’t take anything to improve upon, except maybe aim but that is still less challenging for Valk.

If you like like Valkyrie, then you should like her base kit because it allows you more skill expression and you should be able to continue just fine in your life by having her base kit because her base kit is Valkyrie but it lets you do it skillfully in your own terms.

And as I said, Mercy’s base kit design means she needs something that has a Burst and AOE impact. It doesn’t have to be as strong as Zen or Lucio, but it needs to impact in a burst that has aoe effect, because ult is the only time she should be allowed to possess Burst And/Or AOE because she doesn’t have any other way to do so which is the cost of her reliable design.


#9328

I’ll add to this another point. If you buff valk, it could become aoe burst, but it would mess now with transcendence (and would make her mandatory again), being even safer because you can disengage for free with it, you are taking no risks at all during valk, whereas Zen can be stopped by other ways than just Ana’s nade because if he is not with his team, his ult will be rendered to useless, unlike Mercy who can be behind a cloud and still work at full potential. The only way valk could work as a burst without messing with other characters is making an entire overhaul of it, and even in that case, I’d rather having other ult. By now, rez is the only true Mercy’s burst (very watered anyway and single). I’m not saying I want mass rez as it was or whatever, I’m simply pointing out that that ability is a burst ability. However, as her E is both unfun to use and so busted that it has forced everything else to be nerfed as compensation (excepting GA, and pistol, which was nerfed solely for balance reasons), so it should be changed, if possible to a form that was both balanced and at very least comfortable to use, not this quicksands simulator.

The main problem I see with valk is that it has great problems by design, and balance can’t fix that. It’s unengaging by nature, unless you go battle Mercy (the most enjoyable valk’s feature, it seems according to what people usually says). It’s redundant by nature because you are doing the same things as your normal kit but easier/extended (the only ult that works in a similar way to this would be tactical visor, aka aimbot). It’s not original because it messes with so many other heroes; valk could be perfectly defined as some Pharah’s flight + Lucio’s amp it up + weaker but safer Orisa’s drums. Finally, we have the spam fest being still a thing. Tbh, I don’t see valk working, it wasn’t needed and this huge revert back to alpha, beta and seasons 2-3 was never necessary, because it has only brought back old problems that were fixed before for good. Yes, Mercy needed some changes, but forward, not backward.


#9330

I’m probably 200 posts behind by now, but therr it is:


#9333

This isn’t A PC Only thread

We play the same game


#9335

Same game, where Pharmercy is a nightmare on consoles, yet only mild annoyance on PC. We got same heroes, but game itself isn’t same.