Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State

[N7Warrior-1327]

judging her as unsatisfactory without actually/really playing her

I find her unsatisfactory on a design and reworked hero aspect. Since her main kit hasn’t changed, I see why people still enjoy her compared to symm, and torb. But she falls slightly into the disappointing sombra territory for cooldown rez changing her flow and sombra players being split on perma invis.

[Prisinence-1109]

Also guys stop feeding the troll and ignore it.

I finally realized that there was a mute feature.

This is a shot in the dark, but what if one of the things you measured utility by is how many strats/combos that need it to work?

This could work. See, I need more ideas like this… I could 100% add it into the spreadsheet. Speed boost is probably going to be the hardest to add in.

That’s not wrong, but also not right. It hinders resing through walls which is important. There are also many other factors in place to make Hide&res even worse than it already was and completly unviable to even think about doing it.

The only time I ever hid and Rezzed was through walls. That was only once because I hated the idea of hiding and Rezzing anyway.

Mercy can be changed so that she’s fun again for her older players without compromising the fun of the newer ones, and still be viable and balanced. The world’s not gonna end just because some Mercy veterans aren’t grumpy anymore.

Some of these people are so unbelievably opposed to even simple changes… I’m pretty sure they’re just afraid of Mercy becoming a must pick again. Some of the suggested changes would actually slightly nerf her in lower tiers, and raise her skill ceiling ever so slightly… Without making her op or a must pick.

The posts on “get rid of rez” generally are part of the larger message of “I’m begging you devs, please make Mercy fun agian. I’m desperate and I’m even willing to part with rez if that’s what it takes.”

Pretty much me. I used to be a part of a semi-professional team, and was talking to some of the newer members. They mentioned that if they messed with Mercy’s healing again, she would become too strong because of Rez. I asked them how they would feel if it were removed completely so that changes could be made, they said that they would be fine with that.

Is that what we want, turning not only Valkyrie, but whole character, into mix of reused abilities, that were taken from different heroes?

Removing Resurrect would leave more room for a proper rework. I see what you mean, but another unique E ability and ultimate could be added in its place. There are plenty of ideas.

(I sort of skimmed through… Sorry if I missed something, there were a lot of posts. )

[Crusher55-11700]

Add in Pacify

Pacify wouldn’t work on console.

[Matsy-21502]

That is an issue because?
Its not like they care about console.

[Brawl-2310]

@Ravenna-21947

I’m sure you did. /s

I mean you can look up my posts in that thread.
Here I link them for you.

#Don't bring Mass Rez back

I don’t get it. These are the most void arguments against a return of Mass Res, not to forget the fact that everyone which wants Mass Res back, also wants an entirely reworked version of it. (On top that #ReworkMercy is not “bring back mass res”) Mathematically proven to be wrong and also the worst way to play her overall. It was only rewarded by a bug in the SR system. Other than that it would be absolutely the worst way to play her in all circumstances. Without a broken SR system it would …

That’s my first post in that. I’m sure you can finde the rest if you follow the discussion.

@Ravenna-21947

Please provide those statistics.

@Brawl-2310

Simply put, we know Mercy’s stats and how they changed since the rework.

On average now, Mercy players res up to 6.15 times in each match.
With Mass Res that number was on average at 6.5-7.
Already almost the same amount of res’s than now and that although Mass Res had the potential to res 5 at the same time.

In a perfect match you would get the Mass Res as fast as possible, so in 21s.
And maybe use it ~3 times during a 10 min match. If it would be used more than 3 times you would probably also res way less players with each use.
And if players would have hide that often and go every single time for a 3+ res, the average number of res’s with Mass Res would bet atleast 9 or even more.

That is already a confirmation that only a very small amount of players did that hide&res thing or that it happened very rarely.

But okay, now you could say that they still did at least one 5 man every match (which is already just wrong because 4 and 5 mans were very rare) and that Mercy players didn’t heald a lot and were hiding for that one.
The argument that strongly stamps against that are her healing numbers before and after her rework.
11900HP/match was it on average back then with mass res as her Ult, while with Val (The version where Mercy still had 60HP/s in her base kit too), Mercy healed on average 12085HP/match.
If the Mercy players would have been hiding so much back then and would spent so little time healing her team, as so many claimed to be the case… The amount of healing done from Mercy would have went up way more than just by 185 HP/match. Especially considering that Val could heal 5 players at the same time with 60 HP/s, which would be 3600 more HP heald at best with every use .

Nothing of that supports the claim that ton’s of Mercy players went hiding, not healing the team and just going for 4-5 man res’s. And that doesn’t even takes gun and DmgBoost use into account which is again time spent in battle and not hiding.

A lot of the stats can also be found in the OP. They are/were taken from overbuff.

@Ravenna-21947

Who should the devs listen to? The best players in the world that practically drive the force that the Overwatch League or some minor group of toxic players (like a notorious youtuber who keeps calling the devs names or even OP who got silenced for toxicity multiple times). Not to mention said players are at the bottom of competitive tiers and haven’t played the game by their own admission for 1 year plus. I think it’s a fairly easy choice. You don’t balance the game for the bottom of competitive play, you balance it for the top. That’s not rank shaming, that’s an observation. Bronze, Silver, Gold players called old Symmetra OP and to be nerfed. Yet, the reality is actually quite different. That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact. I’m in no way trying to shame players at that level, there’s nothing wrong with them but it’s a fact that you don’t balance and promote healthy game state by adhering to the bottom of competitive play. Same is true for any walk of life.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you on that. I do know that just looking at the lower end of ladder is a bad thing, especially for the higher end. But if the higer end proves over and over again the lack of understanding for a hero, like Mercy, that can and did lead to very wrong changes which just mess everything up. Again, see Mercy’s rework.
In situations like that, where pro players lack the understanding because they never really play the hero they are complaining, it’s better to ask the casual community.

@Ravenna-21947

Reality is that mass rez doesn’t exist in the game anymore.

Reality is also that a very small group is the core reason for that. Again, a group with no idea about her.

@Ravenna-21947

I’m sorry but you lost me with that pointless analogy. Have no idea what you are saying here.

Mass Rez was pressing Q for instant reward. It required no skill and literally anyone could do Hide&Rez. Valkyrie requires actual skill (albeit still low) to use.

Yeah okay the analogy was a bit stupid, but still… It’s accurate.
Valkyrie is doing everything for you without changing her gameplay at all, only making it easier, while you had to consider tons and tons of things with Mass Res to use it properly. Sure you could do just hide and res, but as easy as that was, as small was also the worth of a res like that and would mostlikely end in a worse situation.
You know… Just like if you throw a rock into the water without thinking and getting all the water in your face because of the splashes.

Okay i stop with that stupid analogy now.

I played Mercy in Master and probably had an MMR in GM, because of the T500/GM games i got so many times.
I never considered Mercy as a pure low skill hero before her rework for several reason. I also really like to challenge myself and that one was a big thing for me. But the reworked version of Mercy was so easy to play, while at the same time way to OP (She is still way to easy) it was just like… to simple.
Mercy before was purely strategy based with a lot of management and movement mixed in that.
And now it’s just stay save and use Ult to push or to save yourself. Done. nothing to improve on. Sure we have the new GA and that one is a ton of fun and one of the last skill checks in her kit, but also easier to use now.

I highly disagree with the opinion that Mercy is now more skillful than before her rework. She is so limited in the things she can do and has to think about that it’s not even worth to think about.
(Don’t get me wrong on that, i still listen to everyone closely)

@Ravenna-21947

Sorry, but I’ll take the Pros over random forum goer any day.

Hm okay. That’s on you i guess.
I think it’s much more important to make my own picture of a story like that and not using the opinions from others.

@Ravenna-21947

Advanced awareness Mercy is the easiest hero to play in the game man, stop making stuff up please. I swear people like you amuse me so much - Mass Rez was incredibly easy ability. It wasn’t rocket science, muh mind games.

Have you played her back then? I don’t want to judge you by just your profile, but you don’t really have a lot of time in the game to really know how she was back then.
Maybe a second account?

@Ravenna-21947

Mechanical skill is not touching the mouse - please educate yourself on the term. It seems you are not using proper definitions.

Mechanical skill in a game like OW goes from moving the crosshairs over the screen to the movement in game of the character. Aiming is a mechanical skill and you need to aim with Mercy while playing, hence “zero skill requirement” is very out of place.
If you would have said something like “You really don’t need to be as good in aiming with her” i wouldn’t have an issue, but statements like waht you said can be very… infuriating.

@Ravenna-21947

You want to buff the easiest hero in the game with literally no drawbacks save for 1s cast time that’s negligible. I would say it’s pretty much what we are talking about.

I could go on and talk with you more about the fact that the 1.x Mercy was way harder to play then the one we have now but i won’t do that. Leads to nothing.
Same with the fact that we implemented a lot of drawbacks to the Ult and that you aparently don’t want to see them for some reason.
Go up the discussion again, I already said everything about that, I won’t repeat it again.

@Ravenna-21947

The ability to resurrect an entire team back from the dead and delete will mistakes will always take precedence any time when you have 3 supports as meta.

No.
We already had mass res, we already know that this is not the case and we already know that was more balanced abck then. And nothing of her old kit, current kit or the idea in the OP would support 3 sups with one of them being Mercy.

@Ravenna-21947

Again, such as?

Okay i said that a lot in the last post so… I would like to link stuff from omnic meta and such but i can’t do that right now.

[Feedback Thread Continued Part III] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018

Well… i made some researches on that “Mass Res is frustrating” topic and i have to say. Yes, the SR exploit caused a lot of frustrating for players. But that was not the only thing. Mercy’s pick rate was not that high because she was to strong. That pick rate was that high because of 4 major factors that are relatively obvious if you think about them. The overall popularity of Mercy (Meta independent), Ana’s problems with Dive and shields and the lack of a third strong main healer. The 4ed f…

That’s a old post from me regarding what we know about old Mercy. The focuse is more on the unfun to paly agains thing but the stats are there as well.

Also a few healing numbers taken from Overbuff over the time for my point earlier:
Mercy’s average healing/game as of June 28th, 2017 (pre-rework): 11905.
Mercy’s average healing/game as of August 12th, 2017 (pre-rework): 11912.
Mercy’s average healing/game as of March 21st, 2018 (post-rework): 11926.
Mercy’s average healing/game as of May 31st, 2018 (post-rework): 11603.
Mercy’s average healing/game as of June 30th, 2018 (post-rework): 11752.
Mercy’s average healing/game as of July 22nd, 2018 (post-rework): 12132.
Mercy’s average healing/game as of August 7th, 2018 (post-rework): 12085.
(The numbers might slightly differ from the ones i used)

@Ravenna-21947

QP runs 90% 5/6 DPS, that’s not a proper analysis not even a little bit.

According to overbuff, before her rework, Mercy’s pickrate was at ~12% in QP. Since they reworked her pickrate was halved to ~6% and still is at that place.
And considering that 5/6 DPSs was almost always the case in OW and that we had 1.x for 5 saesons, i can tell you that it’s pretty accurate.

@Ravenna-21947

Doesn’t seem to be an issue now. Nobody is complaining about any of the supports save for Brigitte who actually has counter-play.

Because currently most parts of the game are getting more in the direction i described. Fair to play against. But as of now, team 4 is sacrificing the player experience in a lot of cases to achieve that, Mercy being the most notable one, but heroes like Sym and Sombra as well.
It’s not the best way to balance, really.

@Ravenna-21947

I’m giving you my opinion and analysis. Which just happens to be supported by myriads of others, a large part of the community, the Pros, the Devs. Also facts (that Mass Rez was unhealthy, the SR abuse, all the other things detailed in the thread I linked, the unhealthy play-style etc.)

That’s what i mean. It’s no analysis or your opinion if you use another opinion as an argument.
You have the Pro’s on your list which as far as i know had no idea about facts regarding Mercy other than “No skill Mercy main, only carried”
Then you have the community which only mirrors the Pro’s opinion and labels them as facts.
And then you have team 4, sure, they are the “be all end all” at the end of the day. But they have yet to address the unfun issue so many have with her (and other parts of the game)

Not very viable if you ask me. And if humans fail to be proper with things like that numbers and stats are your best friend and all of them say the exact opposite of waht dev’s and Pro’s said.

The reason why i don’t really see a solid point from you.

@Prisinence-1109

The only time I ever hid and Rezzed was through walls. That was only once because I hated the idea of hiding and Rezzing anyway.

Well, I didn’t do that as well but if players see it as an issue and so few only did it, It would be no lose really.

[Roseblite-1958]

@Ravenna-21947

Terrible idea game state-wise. Mercy is currently fine and balanced. Burst heal for Mercy and living allies on top of Mass Rez for dead allies is just insanely broken.

LoS doesn’t solve Hide&Rez issues.

Idea is just not well thought-out and will make Mercy broken.

Ah, on this thread as well saying the exact same thing as this reply I see:

#Don't bring Mass Rez back

Valkyrie is not weaker in the context of her overall kit. You forget to take that into account. Yeah, because bringing someone back from the dead (or deleting a mistake) is a pretty powerful tool one that needs to be balanced appropriately. Pretty often. It’s very well documented. So what’s there to discuss? Mass Rez pretty much had almost no counter whatsoever. You realize you essentially are promoting terrible ultimate economy. The team already threw two ultimates which got deleted an…

[Roseblite-1958]

They took Mass Rez out for legitimate reasons.

For 1 legitamater eason, “Hide and Rez”. Which we STILL do not know how often it happened because they have not released ANY data on it.

The other Reason is due to it being “unfun to play against”. Thus 1 of the reasons deals with the subjective nature of “fun/unfun” while the actual and only reason was the SR exploit of “Hide and Rez”, which was taken out 1 week before Rework was released.

[Nandalee-2753]

For 1 legitamater eason, “Hide and Rez”. Which we STILL do not know how often it happened because they have not released ANY data on it.

I dont think Blizzard even has any data and stats for that. Honestly how would you measure that? Having healing numbers, rez numbers and so on is no problem for sure but hide and rez is a whole “tactic”. You would need to measure a lot of things for that without any other use.
I am sure they just saw the complaints of a bunch of people and took it as a scapegoat for a rework. They wanted to change her but didnt want to share the true reasons. Otherwise they could show stats and tell us what was so terribly wrong but they dont. Lots of speculation I know but thats how it seems to be for me.

[PuffyPony-1639]

Why…?

[Crusher55-11700]

I seriously doubt they would purposely destroy a heroes viability.

[Crusher55-11700]

Long story short, the only button Mercy has open is reload, but the problem is that you have to use your right thumb to press it, which means you can’t aim at the same time. This means that Pacify wouldn’t be able to be properly used.

[enferreine-1976]

DM doesn’t get any other advantage though.

Zarya bubbles a limited because the increase Zarya’s damage.
This makes Zarya a fantastic off tank.

DM used to be a really fantastic off tank ability because it could back up a shield tank during an ult fight. Or help lighten the load of the shield tank. It turned her from versatile tank to hulking DPS.
All it did was act like a long range block and could probably have done with a slight forward range decrease. But it was a tanking ability that didn’t do anything to increase her damage or do anything more than a shield. In fact, it technically deals with less than shields and woth the shield buff I propose it would still do far less.

DM is not as good as everyone give it credit for.
It is a shield that has time based resource management rather than health based.
It is a good introductory ability but it had a brilliant learning curve to maximise efficiency of knowing when to save DM for longer ults or sacrificing some duration early to try and save your supports.

[enferreine-1976]

DPS have always been strong complainers about DM. I see it in game all the time and it blows my freaking mind.

Moira and Ana suffer by DM sure, but the can also suffer to normal shields, so like is there really much difference?
Maybe if they were improved to face the shields and such. Like by design they are slightly unreliable but they could use a little more reliability but also a greater potential to be consistent would be optimal.

Because we can’t keep up with the burst damage burst healing tango. It ruins the game. And tanks bein the only ones able to take that damage and then also keep moving toward damage in the kits, it needs to stop and they need to go back to being tanks.

[enferreine-1976]

But the argument is that we feel skill is taken away in Valk. Combining the beams sort of does the same issue. Mercy players like the choice, that choice is what shows the difference of a skillful Mercy, combining the beams invades upon that show of skill.

[LtLatency-1382]

That is common for lots of heroes.

I don’t think Zen or 76 has there skill go through the roof when they ULT

[enferreine-1976]

Long range reduced by an amount I totally agree to compensate for the return of duration. But it can’t be too short because it blocks less than shields, less than a deflect, less than a Zarya bubbles, it doesn’t increase her damage or anything else.

Also:
200 health 300 armor.
Micro missiles removed.
Instead she gets an E that can occasionally increase the width of DM for a second or two.

[WildElements-1760]

You are the only person I’ve seen who has said this. I’m sure the others who helped come up with the idea in the OP would have said something about it. Quite a few play console.

[enferreine-1976]

Zen and 76 take a lot of skill to use and their ult isn’t so much about a direct skill of ult but the challenges it can apply.

Zen has to have a similar thought to Mass Rez Mercy, choosing carefully to make sure you get the most possible out of Transcendence. It doesn’t take a lot of skill to press the button but it does take a lot of thought and awareness to get the most out of it.

Soldier’s comes from a vulnerability aspect. He becomes more vulnerable when he ults, so to be really successful and to make the most of it with his ult he needs to actually make sure he thinks of his position, in a way he doesn’t normally have to as much.

There are still challenges for them.
New challenges.

This is the problem with Valk.
There isn’t a new challenge to replace all the challenges it is taking away from us.

[LtLatency-1382]

Shooting with Auto aim is New Challenge for 76??

If I face palmed any harder i would have a black eye

[enferreine-1976]

For me personally mass rez was unhealthy altogether. The whole idea that an ultimate can delete mistakes with a press of a button is just bad particularly in a competitive team oriented FPS.

Then you have to delete all ultimates from the game because in other team orientated FPS, you wouldn’t have ultimates. Ultimates are by design strong and game changing.

This game reflects a one lane and first person MOBA. TF2 with a MOBA baby.
Ultimates will be strong because that is the purpose of them.

But if you dislike one being strong than you have to dislike all of them.