These changes were made because a majority of the entire overwatch community found them unfun to play against. Arguing to change a hero because they are unfun to play as for some people is another story. With your logic, any character could be argued to need changes because a minority find them unfun to play.
There is a reason why most (if not all) people completely ignore the Mercy during her ult, you know. And it’s certainly not because she is hard to kill … it’s because she is not really doing anything that has an impact on the outcome of a battle. She is no threat. She is just … a fly in the sky. Who cares about an ulting Mercy these days? Just kill her teammates? It’s not like she can do anything to prevent that from happening. And a “buff” to 60 hp/s won’t change that.
There is a reason why I prefer literally anything else than a Mercy on my team - especially during teamfights. And especially as a tank.
It’s quite sad actually.
10 Likes
That has never been confirmed and I sincerely doubt Blizzard can track the opinion of 40 million players to find the majority. It’s sorta clear that they were going off of the online community. (Forums, reddit, YouTube etc.) With that in mind, they should have no problem addressing how we feel about Mercy. 
Nope, because as of now, we don’t know who the majority and minority is. And even if I was going to argue like this, things point at us being the majority. How? Let’s use Titanium’s thread as an example. It was 1650+ likes and the main subject is how current Mercy is not fine, the main reason being, fun. Now, let’s compare this to a thread that claims that Mercy is fine and fun. Since Titanium’s thread is the most upvoted thread in existence on the forums, we know Titanium’s thread wins by a large margin. If we were to use that as a sample size, it would point at a large number and or majority not having fun with her. That is a huge concern that definitely should be addressed.
Edit:
There’s also this that further suggests that those who dislike her current state is the majority. 
It also gives percentages on how many people find her fun and unfun.
/End edit
𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓜𝓮𝓻𝓬𝔂 𝓘𝓬𝓮 𝓒𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓶 𝓜𝓸𝓿𝓮𝓶𝓮𝓷𝓽
Spreading positivity and ice cream, one Mercy at a time.
8 Likes
While I don’t think Valkyrie is as useless as you say, I agree it could be changed for the better. I recently thought of some ideas to change Mercy and Valkyrie that I think most people would like.
You do it the way all smart do – read, discuss, theory-craft, watch vids. Titanium’s theorycrafting is current, your theory on how the game is played vs. how it should be played is vague in comparison, which I’m honestly okay with until you stack it up against the many arguments in this thread.
4 Likes
Yet, Titanium claims 50% of Mercy mains stopped maining Mercy because they thought she was unfun. Do you see the problem? Titanium persuaded many people into believing their opinion. So many people first tried nerfed Mercy with a negative mindset. They already thought Mercy was bad before they even tried it. I thought Mercy was bad before for this same reason. Everyone was angry and saying she was dead, so I believed it without thinking. This means the likes of this video can’t be used as evidence or in a sample as Titanium’s actions have caused bias. Thousands of likes cannot compare to millions of players that ignore this thread.
This survey is very biased. The questions were very leading (favouring a certain answer over others), and most of the people who chose to do the survey already had a negative mindset about Mercy. The players that fine Mercy fun simply didn’t know the survey existed, as they were too busy playing the game (like me).
It’s a reasonable assertion based on Overbuff stats.
TBH, I feel that the drop has more to do with players maining Mercies to win in QP and CP, and that the drop has more to with them shifting to the support FOTM (which is currently Ana).
Both points of views are reasonable, imho, and if you can find another reasonable implication due to the stat trends, you’re welcome to take a stab at it.
3 Likes
That’s an educated guess and a good one at that since statistics support it.
It was an assertion that was backed up by evidence…
Titanium says this well after her rework though?
And not everyone is like you. Many tried it and then said it was bad.
That is incorrect. People won’t mindlessly like things without reading things. Even if they don’t try it, Titanium’s theorycrafting is backed up by a lot of people who have played her.
Millions of players are not on the forums. It is just a few thousands. With that in mind, there’s more things that suggest that we’re the majority and again, you can’t exactly prove that you’re the majority in this case either.
Not at all. The OP is extremely neutral and usually dislikes mass Res and usually says her state is fine.
Again, they had a negative mindset because people who have played her and people who theorycraft said so. You don’t need to play the hero to know that they are bad. That’s just low-level gatekeeping. Also, assuming that these people with negative mindsets didn’t play Mercy is just that, an assertion. Claiming something like this, logically speaking, makes little sense.
This excuse can be used in favor of those who didn’t find Mercy unfun as well. You’re honestly just making excuses at this point.
𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓜𝓮𝓻𝓬𝔂 𝓘𝓬𝓮 𝓒𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓶 𝓜𝓸𝓿𝓮𝓶𝓮𝓷𝓽
Spreading positivity and ice cream, one Mercy at a time.
10 Likes
I could argue with you for a long time, but I don’t want to anymore. People would just continue to misunderstand what I’m trying to say. For example:
I didn’t mean the person who made it was biased, I meant the people who took part in the survey. The questions could have also been leading whether they intended it or not.
I’ve stated many times now that I have ideas to change Mercy, but you ignore them and assume I’m just another hater making excuses. I have no reason to make excuses. I am a Mercy main just like you. I want Mercy to be a better hero just like you. The only difference is I like Mercy on the PTR and think she will be balanced. The reason I’m trying so hard to convince you Mercy is fun is I want you to be happier, and I want you to enjoy the game. If that makes me a bad person then I guess I am. I’ll link my ideas below, again. Please look at them before replying to me again. (If you want to)
Characters you main are likely to be fun to you, otherwise you wouldn’t consider them your main.
I have a main for every class (DPS, Tank and Support) and even have back up main mains. The ones I consider my main, would be done because I consider them fun. However, I can no longer say I consider Mercy fun anymore which means I don’t want to consider her my main.
So was people finding Mass Rez unfun to play against, but that still got by. So if a lot of people state that they find it unfun, well they either need to give us a new hero that works similarly and covers the same intentions in a way or they give us back the fun for our hero.
Keyword is wanted.
Just like we want things too, hence why we make our arguments and look at and analyze how Mercy performed in the past, compared to now in accordance to the statement of the devs reasons for reworking her and changing her. And that is exactly what Titanium did in the OP.
Sure, there may be some bias because of the anger towards what we have now, but overall it is really well done and the analysis part is actually a pretty decent representation of where we are. And you can’t say that it is opinion when it comes from analysis, especially where there is often statisical proof to back certain aspects up.
People do studies based on observation and analysis all the time and they aren’t instantly told “well that is your opinion”, especially when they have other forms of evidence that can be used to bring some form of authenticity to their claims.
Except, you can do that without Valkyrie. Good GA management and usage can make any good Mercy look like she is flying and untouchable and the same could be said when GA was worse. Valkyrie’s chain beams remove the need to better your beam prioritization and juggling and therefore you can be more garbage at her base kit and still be rewarded.
You can use your own skill to do that. Valkyrie is like the game holding your hand
and saying “Let me do that for you because clearly you can’t do what I am doing on your own”. It is insulting to the player base to have an ability simplify and take over usage of the base kit in this way when she is already mechanically easy and has complexities to her that can show the distinctions between good and bad players.
I mean, unless the latter two have ult and even then you don’t have to worry much until you get to the high ranks and by that point, you already know you can hide behind a wall hold left and right click and literally be less engaged in the fight than what you were before pressing Q for Valkyrie. The base kit is more engaging and lets you show more skill than Valkyrie does.
When I say Valkyrie takes less skill to use, I mean for the base kit. The base kit is a more challenging and rewarding version of Valkyrie and can warrant having a valuable ult because of all it’s limitations that you do have to contend with.
E rez is less challenging and less skillful than Mass Rez, if you don’t like the analysis even with the various concepts that tend to back up it’s claim, well that is fine. There are always people who disagree, even when it comes to professional journals written by Historians and Scientists because people can analyze and report things differently but the numbers act to back that up in a lot of people’s eyes.
Personally, I have never experienced the same complex thoughts that I experienced for Mass Rez on E Rez, I have seen nothing but a simplified version of what resurrect used to be. And when seeing other Mercy’s I watch them make poor choices simply by whether they lived or died, and that boils down to did they rez during the poke battles then they were safe and did they try to rez mid-fight, well they died because they chose to do that one out in the open in a dumb spot. Even if they did get the person up, that person died again. That person wouldn’t have died so instantly again if the basic thought process of:
Will I live? No? No Rez then.
If it can be stripped down so much to a lot of people, then the old skills are not there.
Umm, we weren’t okay with it?
Like, people are literally saying that they want that taken off of Mercy and believe that was the downfall of Mercy in needing this rework.
We used it because we had it, but we called it OP and wrong to have. We just don’t believe Mass Resurrect would be OP if balanced correctly.
Even so, the invulnerability came after starting the revive, so you had to get into position first and likely risk yourself to get that Rez that took a lot of thought and skill to succeed with and then it didn’t last that long, long enough to cancel out an attempt at punishing after the rez was going on and faulting them for not paying attention sooner. But again, I say that Mercy’s thought the invulnerability was not necessary and OP and that is why we don’t advocate for it.
5 Likes
This is another example of someone completely misunderstanding what I’m trying to say. I want Mercy to be a better hero! How many times do I have to say it before people stop ignoring that fact?
That’s fine. I don’t mind claiming victory or just agreeing to disagree. 
On what grounds exactly? And even then, the survey was asking for opinions. Expecting them to be bias-free is really unrealistic.
They really weren’t. All of them were neutral. If you feel like some of the questions are leading, feel free to highlight them so I can see it for myself.
What? When did I ignore your ideas? I didn’t even know they existed. Also, this is an assumption. When did I assume that you are just a hater? 
Hopefully we can put our differences aside and aim for a fun and balanced Mercy then. Mass Res or not. 
Our biggest concern has always been fun. Also, I don’t want to assume things before trying out the changes on live so I will just leave the PTR stuff to, No Comment.
You can’t do that I’m afraid. 
Only Blizzard has the power to address our concerns about fun. Convincing us that the problem doesn’t exist is only avoiding the problem rather than fixing it.
I really never said this, at all. 
Sure!
Um… You just deleted almost everything about Valkyrie. It would be far-fetched to label it as such. 
Damage boost, without your ultimate, increases your ally’s damage by 30% so the ultimate would be nerfing that?
Lucio’s ultimate does this and turns his entire team into temporary tanks.
Lucio’s, Briggite, Zen and Moira all have this but they do it way, way better.
That means there is no counterplay… That is definitely an issue.
This is unnecessary and a nerf. Also, Super Jump got implemented into the game by Blizzard after it was acknowledged as a bug.
Mercy can just heal said allies again, it punishes Mercy for using one of her abilities and some heroes cannot survive with just 50% health.
Geoff Goodman already denied this suggestion, stating that it was “too complicated”. It was said in one of EeveeA’s streams.
𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓜𝓮𝓻𝓬𝔂 𝓘𝓬𝓮 𝓒𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓶 𝓜𝓸𝓿𝓮𝓶𝓮𝓷𝓽
Spreading positivity and ice cream, one Mercy at a time.
11 Likes
That’s good, so do we.
But in most aspects from what we have seen, E Rez is not really something that can be balanced without destroying her base kit. Her base kit, allows us to show lots of skill even if she is mechanically easier, but Valkyrie takes the reward out of excelling with her base kit.
So what do we do to improve her that doesn’t deal with Valkyrie as it is now or E rez as it is now or has been in previous iterations of it?
That leaves a revert with changes or something new entirely and let us assume we continue to assume we cannot convince Blizzard that Mass Resurrect was healthier for the game even though we have stats that show it wasn’t OP in it’s time and even when it got it’s most OP change, it only made her C Tier.
So now we have something new as option.
BUT, it can’t leave out a resurrect because it has been said that they don’t want to lose something so signature to Mercy.
Well gee, we have still already had so many suggestions that literally obey and disobey all of this and just change her completely or change her in minor ways and they sound interesting or at least worth trying (That’s what PTR should be for, right?). Pre-Rezzes, Invulnerabilities that work like a Zarya bubble, Rez that works like if they take damage that would have killed them, they are instead healed for ____ (percentage, numbers etc.).
Like, we are throwing together ideas of all different sorts and they all go into the megavoid. Why bother trying anymore if they have never been bothered to try for us?
It’s easier to just say “Look, Mercy was actually healthier for the game before with Mass Rez. Spent most of the time in F-Tier, a lot of people were content/happy with her, people were making her work for them and playing with her didn’t mean a win or a loss. She just was a hero that existed and felt like she had a good purpose.”
OH and not to mention, we would appreciate if the kit would still reflect her pacifist and medical/scientist side.
9 Likes
The new version of Valkyrie is meant to supplement Mercy’s healing and damage boost from her single target beams. All allies would be damage boosted for 20% and healed for 30hps in a radius around Mercy. Mercy could increase these values with her beams to 50% and 80hps on a single target. (Or 90hps, if 60hps returns to Mercy’s normal beams)
The change to super jump is intended to make up for Mercy’s lack of independent movement without flight during Valkyrie. It could be used without a teammate to target.
The complaints would be enormous.
We justify her mobility because it is team reliant which gives it a weakness that a Mercy must overcome with game sense, awareness and positioning.
I think Super jump on a 10 or 12 second cooldown would be less powerful than potentially on a 2 second cooldown with GA, but it would be better at quick escapes from danger.
But she still gets GA, a rez, angelic descent, passive healing, her beams, the ultimate.
That would be too much utility and one that adds to her mobility like this and removes it from team reliance would cause a lot of comments about imbalance because people already feel she has superior mobility.
Currently angel hops are restricted to GA which is still restricted to team reliance. So people still are taking it as part of GA and accepting the restrictions.
This is still pretty lacklustre for an ultimate and would be much better as an regular CD ability. Especially when you start to compare abilities and ultimates with the other supports.
She doesn’t need independ Movement when she already has one of the best mobility abilities on a 2 second cooldown. Also, again, this would be an unnecessary nerf to Mercy. Super jump, as of now, is fine and doesn’t need any changes. You should focus more on the new ultimate.
𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓜𝓮𝓻𝓬𝔂 𝓘𝓬𝓮 𝓒𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓶 𝓜𝓸𝓿𝓮𝓶𝓮𝓷𝓽
Spreading positivity and ice cream, one Mercy at a time.
3 Likes
Valkyrie being useless is backed up by math and numbers. What can be stopped with 60 hps? Correct answer: Winston’s tesla gun.
8 Likes
It would be as good as Nano boost for one ally, with 50% damage boost and 30hps, or 90hps and 20% damage boost. Don’t forget, all allies also get a 30% speed boost. Or maybe instead of/in addition to speed they could have 25% damage reduction.