Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State


#508

Am I supposed to be confused? I’m confused


#509

Why would we keep this Mercy when we know it is flawed. It’s only been 11 nerfs, and we all know more are to come.

Also, you are right. Fun is subjective, and current Mercy is a dullfest


#510

But don’t forget:

:thinking:


#511

There you go taking things out of context again. You are so intellectually dishonest it’s shameful. You should run for Congress


#512

The hot tea

Wait can I get banned for that gif?


#513

I do.

There is. If there wasn’t, there wouldn’t be any collisions.

What would you use to refer to Soldier:76’s blue streaks left in the air?

You can’t have an “infinitely small” vector and still register a hit.

Here, hold this:

Recent Developments:

On the PTR, Mercy received another nerf, bringing her number of post-rework nerfs to 13. In order, here is the list of nerfs to Mercy since Mercy 2.0’s introduction:

  • Pistol damage in Valkyrie reduced from 30 to 20.
  • Mercy’s pistol no longer receives an increase in fire rate while in Valkyrie.
  • Valkyrie flight speed reduced from 11 meters/second to 9 meters/second.
  • Guardian Angel’s cooldown no longer resets upon Resurrect’s activation.
  • Valkyrie no longer reduces Resurrect’s cooldown.
  • Resurrect now has a 1.75 second cast time unless Valkyrie is active.
  • Mercy’s movement speed is reduced by 75% while casting Resurrect.
  • Resurrect can now be interrupted through CC, knockback, and death. If interrupted, Resurrect begins its cooldown.
  • Mercy is no longer exempt from Resurrect’s cast time while Valkyrie is active.
  • Valkyrie no longer grants a charge of Resurrect upon activation.
  • Valkyrie’s GA movement speed bonus reduced by 50%.
  • Valkyrie’s duration reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.

And finally:

  • Mercy’s primary beam healing output reduced from 60 health/second to 50 health/second.

That last one is on the PTR now, and based upon the fact that just about every change that hits the PTR goes live, it is safe to assume that this change will also go live. There’s one big problem that I see with this change right off the bat, but because I occasionally like to be suspenseful, I’m going to hold off on that until we glance at the two sets of developer comments for this change:

“Mercy is intended to be able to consistently pump out more healing than any other healer over the course of a match. While this is currently true, the difference in healing is so significant that it makes it very difficult for other healers to compete with her for a spot on a team. Reducing her healing output will close this gap a little, but she will still maintain her status as the go-to pick for raw healing power. We’ll keep an eye on her to make sure she is still a strong pick.”

“Mercy’s previous healing output made her nearly impossible to replace in any team composition. Even after these changes she will still be able to deliver more healing over the course of a match than any other support hero. This change should allow for other healers to be a more viable pick.”

Let’s start picking these apart.

“Mercy is intended to be able to consistently pump out more healing than any other healer over the course of a match. While this is currently true, the difference in healing is so significant that it makes it very difficult for other healers to compete with her for a spot on a team.”

“Mercy’s previous healing output made her nearly impossible to replace in any team composition.”

The first and largest problem here is a misidentification of the problem. Mercy currently is a must pick, but is her healing really the cause of her mandatory status?

I’ll give you a hint: The answer is “No”.

How do I know this? Simple Geometry logic; basic enough to be broken down into a basic truth table using Boolean data types (True/False):

The above table shows the possible relationships between two Boolean variables (P and Q) and the outcome of those two variables joined by an “and” function.

Applying this to our scenario, “True” represents a state of balance; “False” represents a state of unbalance. The variables P and Q represent different parts of Mercy’s kit. “P and Q” represent Mercy’s overall balance.

For a hero to be balanced, the entirety of their kit and each individual part of their kit must be balanced; hence the fact that the outcome of the function “P and Q” is only “True” if P is “True” and Q is also “True”. If one or several parts of a hero’s kit is unbalanced, then the hero is unbalanced.

We know that prior to the rework, Mercy was balanced, almost underpowered in some cases. She had a high overall pickrate, but that pickrate sharply fell off when approaching higher ranks in favor of other healers. She was viable enough to have at least decent representation throughout all ranks, yet she was behind every other healer in GM pickrates, so she could not have been viable to the point of being oppressive. If she was, that would have been reflected in such ranks.

If we know that Mercy 1.x was balanced, then we also know that every part of Mercy 1.x’s kit was balanced; the only factors that will yield a balanced or “True” result are ones that are also balanced or “True” (see the first row in the table).

We know that post-rework Mercy is overpowered, as her pickrates across the board, but especially in GM, are very high. On top of this, the pickrates of other healers in GM (the exception being Zenyatta, who combos well with Mercy) are abysmal, demonstrating just how oppressive Mercy currently is.

How did Mercy go from balanced to overpowered, or from “True” to “False”? Her kit was changed by the rework, and either P or Q was changed to “False”.

The keyword in that last sentence is “changed”. A Boolean cannot go from “True” to “False” or vice versa unless something caused it to do so; something changed in it.

Connect the dots.

  • Prior to the rework, “P and Q” returns “True”, therefore both P and Q individually are “True”.
  • After the rework, “P and Q” returns “False”, therefore P, Q, or both, are “False”.
  • A variable flipping from “True” to “False” can only happen if that variable is altered.
  • The only parts of Mercy’s kit that could have switched from balanced to unbalanced are the parts that were changed by the rework.

Do you know what changed through Mercy’s rework?

Not her healing output.

Her healing output is the same as it was prior to her rework; the same 60 health/second, the same aim-assist allied lock-on, the same ease of use and retargeting.

“But what about Valkyrie?”, I hear some of you furiously fingering into your keyboard.

I don’t know…

Mercy’s average healing/game as of June 28th, 2017 (pre-rework): 11905.
Mercy’s average healing/game as of August 12th, 2017 (pre-rework): 11912.
Mercy’s average healing/game as of March 21st, 2018 (post-rework): 11926.
Mercy’s average healing/game as of May 31st, 2018 (post-rework): 11603.
Mercy’s average healing/game as of June 30th, 2018 (post-rework): 11752.
Mercy’s average healing/game as of July 22nd, 2018 (post-rework): 12132.

What about Valkyrie?

Mercy’s healing output since her latest patch has remained within about 300 HP of where it was prior to her rework.

That said, I’m going to humor this remark anyway. It helps to establish a point.

Suppose Valkyrie was problematic in regards to balance. What should be changed as a result?

I’ll give you a hint: Not anything that isn’t Valkyrie.

If a hero is overpowered, the reason for them being overpowered needs to be defined. Once the issues have been localized, nothing but the source of those problems should be altered. Altering a “True”, regardless as to whether or not it causes that variable to change to “False”, does not change the other variables that are “False” back to “True”. Therefore, the hero will remain unbalanced.

Everything I have said above should come intuitively. If A and B results in balance, but then B is replaced by C, and then A and C results in an imbalance, it’s pretty obvious that C is the source of the problem. The problem will not be fixed by changing A.

Take Hanzo’s rework, for example. Hanzo was underpowered prior to his rework, and his rework, which granted him Storm Arrows and Lunge while leaving the rest of him unchanged, made him overpowered. The only thing the developers should be altering with Hanzo (and the only thing they have altered so far) are his Storm Arrows and his Lunge. Nerfing his primary fire, his Wall Climb, or his Sonic Arrow wouldn’t solve the problem, and would only serve to piss off the Hanzo playerbase.

Sound familiar?

The source of Mercy’s dominance isn’t something that has remained the same for 10 seasons (her healing output). The source of her dominance is something that has changed dramatically since then: Resurrect.

Did it occur to you that that 150 healing also might not connect?

I see you you were not here in season 3. Clearly, you are the one without any sense of reality.

Can I get a… stun?

Flying during GA counts as using GA. If you press Q, you’re not using GA anymore, and are no longer flying.

I can see that you don’t know much about Mercy. Otherwise you would see that this statement is incorrect:


#514

Oh, but that was completely in context. The exchange literally went:


#515

Except were not taking about season 4 Mercy, were talking about season 1 Mercy which you want to bring back + a mediocre e ability


#516

Are you Still On this?

I suggest re-reading the OP if you wish to understand how Different It really is.

Because as far as i can tell, she would play Very Differently.


#517

It’s okay for titanium to still be in here but not me? Please explain.

Different yes. Enough to make up for trash ult? Not even close.


#518

Dude, ChibiFox meant the topic, not you. And it’s clear what Chibi meant – the Mercy referred to in the original post is not season 1 Mercy. Deliberate misunderstanding to score cheap points is, well, cheap.


#519

This isn’t a revert.

this is a rework.


#520

Not a strawman if I proceed to counter your argument in the very next sentence. It’s called mocking, I am mocking you.

Why in the world would I bother responding to your proposal if I didn’t read it? That makes zero sense.
Mercy doesn’t need burst healing nor does she need aoe healing. She has the most consistent single target heals in the game and the best mobility in the support class. She should not be infringing on what makes other healers valuable picks.

A one second cast time with a los check isn’t enough to justify a pretty good burst heal on Mercy herself and all living allies. Rez is already powerful enough.

Oh I love the sudden flip. “How is this relevant to the discussion,” you made it relevant when you compared Pacify to sleep dart. Ana’s weaknesses come into play heavily when we are comparing and contrasting. Ana has no mobility, which justifies her powerful CC. Zen has no mobility, which justifies his high damage output. Mercy has little to no damage output, which justifies her very high mobility.
Mercy a support with the highest survivability of the class, does not need more utility than damage boost. It’s as simple as that. Pacify would just be another thing on the list of 'Why Mercy is The Best Support and Picking Any Other is Throwing."

Okay on a hero like Ana.
You can’t possibly be telling me a projectile CC that’s know to be hard to hit is comparable to what you’ve proposed.

Sleep Dart
Pros

  • stuns, silences, and disarms target simultaneously
  • Last up to 5.5 seconds
  • Shuts down channelled ultimates

Cons

  • Has a .5 second wind up
  • is a slow projectile
  • is stopped by shields, DM, and deflect
  • targets are freed from the effect of sleep dart if any damage is taken

Pacify
Pros

  • hitscan
  • large hitbox
  • lowers damage output of the target by 33% for 4 seconds
  • once target is afflicted with the status, they cannot be cleansed

Cons

  • A .5 second wind up
  • Stopped by shields, DM, and Deflect

… Sounds fair. “Slightly easier to apply.” That’s a load of horse crap. You’re telling me a hitscan version on Ana’s sleep dart that’s about 10x bigger in size is “slightly easier to apply”? Get out.

Context, but whatever. Shall I use bad, terrible, egregious, trash, lame, poorly thought out? Don’t play dumb, it’s quite clear I was talking about the idea, not the ability itself. I shouldn’t have to differentiate that for you.

Wow. An ability with no Cooldown boost about 330 less damage than an ultimate.

pitiful. Unfathomable. Horrendous. It’s the ability that’s garbage though right?

Honestly, you know it’s bad when you have to compare an ability to an ultimate to justify why it’s ‘bad’ or “mediocre.” That’d be like me trying to justify storm arrow… By comparing it to dragonblade.

Genji’s ultimate last six seconds and on average gets more kills per use than storm arrow. They both only get six hits, but Hanzo has to shoot his off faster because he can only hold storm for five seconds. THEREFORE Storm Arrow is completely and utterly mediocre trash.

Ah never played season 2 eh? I see you also don’t get exaggeration. I put it simply, a pocketed McCree is 5x better than a McCree that isn’t being pocketed. A pocketed McCree that’s being damage boosted is 2x better than a pocketed McCree that isn’t. (As long as they are of equal skill of course.)

Except it does. 300 damage difference is not enough to argue that an ability is garbage or “mediocre” lmao. It’s not hyperbole if it’s true.

Just because other supports can do it doesn’t mean Mercy should too. The other supports have legitimate reasons as to why they can do these things. Zen and Ana have no mobility or shielding. They can’t escape a dragonblading Genji like Mercy can and if they miss those few shots or the sleep dart, they’re as good as dead. Lucio outputs low levels of solo target heals, his ultimate is really his only option besides trying to speed boost his teammates out. (Which isn’t always an option.) Can’t forget that his ult has a pretty lengthy and obvious cast time, making it one of the easier ults to counter. Brigitte just has an insane kit thats never been balanced.

Mercy already has options given to her. She can’t fight, which means she can flee. She’s the last support we should be giving a ‘shutdown’ ability to.

So has Mercy’s. What’s your point? OP heroes pickrates don’t change because of a tickle? It doesn’t change the fact that it had to be changed because the combination was that strong.


#521

No invuln, cast time, just like season 1. Throw los nerf on top of that? That’s worse than s1. A mediocre e ability won’t make that Mercy good. This “rework” would make her trash. You can deny it and rephrase things however you want, blizzard is the only ones you have to convince, not me. But fortunately for us Mercy mains who aren’t blinded by their desire to get mass res back, they aren’t that dumb.


#522

Someone’s basically saying almost everything I would have said (albeit both sides are being a little snarkier than I’d start;p ) so I’ll just add

Think of it this way:
Why would I take Moira, who has high healing (and mostly trash damage) potential but depends on good positioning and clumped teammates and her own resource meter when I could take mercy, who has:
-the best mobility
-resurrect and essentially a raid heal burst cooldown at the same time without having to choose
-Damage boost
-Pacify, which is hitscan for some reason?
-Can heal through barriers
-can heal easily no matter how spread or how long the fight is
-a better escape


#523

i love the idea, but asking Blizzard for something is like waiting to see a shooting star.


#524

That is amazing artwork. And I am perfectly fine with how mercy is too. She feels great when i play her. Not too OP.


#525

Valk is a movement ability with chain beams.

The chain beams go against Mercy’s “single target” design, so that can’t stay.

The movement could be fun as an E ability, but if Mercy 3.0 is going to be viable she’ll need a utility move in that slot.

The bunnyhop combined with the improved Angelic Decent will already make Mercy’s movement extremely fluid. The most that could be done to appease the “I miss Valkyrie” crowd without pushing Mercy over the edge, would be to give a more vertical version of Hanzo’s lunge.

With enough skill, players could chain the extra jump with the rest of Mercy’s mobility to zoom around the field.


#526

The concepts being presented are the focus. Any number values are always on the table for nerfs or buffs. Please don’t dismiss an idea outright if you don’t like the number values.

For example:

The amount of burst healing from rez is not set in stone, and can be lowered or raised as needed. If having it in an AoE is too powerful, we can try only having it on Mercy.

If having an E ability combined with 60hps makes Mercy too versatile in her base form, we could try 50hps again.

Pacify could be experimented with. Maybe try making it a projectile, and/or mess around with the hitbox size.


#527

And the rank of Master?