Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State

[AkiraNasuki-2927]

No, I’m sorry, but 50hps is unacceptable. To be a main support if seen that with 60 hps is the minimum necessary to have healing burst necessary for the main support work. 60 hps must return, rework or not. Otherwise officially mercy becomes an off support.

This never stopped the early season of Mercy when she was an underdog. You literally had to prove yourself with skill and solo sustain the team prior to the 60 HPS bonus.

The only reason 50HPS isn’t helping is because people are playing like we still have Mass Res available and are over extending and expect us to follow them to certain death. I win more games by teams not recklessly diving and more people now are playing similar to the 2016 seasons where we play a lot more disciplined and reserved, reducing deaths… allowing heals and disengaging rather than chasing after people.

60 HPS on it’s own cannot be underestimated, it allows for a much easier time at solo healing and it increases her rate of ult charge as her healing contributes to ult gain.

Mercy is still a main healer but just like Ana in 2017, she has been put off as a sub-healer because of situational changes. Just like how Ana cannot hit and keep up with diver comps choices like Winston, Genji and Tracer, Mercy right now cannot keep up with reckless players.

The dive era is over, Mercy cannot save a reckless team like a Genji directly solo diving 5 people with Dragonblade. She shouldn’t even be approaching the front line because of that blasted Brigitte.

To this date I still curse at Mercy’s who play reserved and passively, being safe and out of harm and ensuring she survives and is hidden and doing all she can to heal safely.

She can deny death by healing, Valkyrie can be used as a massive … you ability. But this is all reliant on teams playing around the Mercy. A team match can be lost by someone over extending, if people understand that Resurrect is not reliable, then they have to play more safely.

I might agree with this if the other healers were still in their season 4/5 states. They aren’t. Lucio and Ana have received straight buffs since then, and Zenyatta has never dropped into nonviability. The only healer I would be a little bit concerned about would be Moira, and she isn’t doing too well as she is, looking at her GM pickrates.

Lucio has been dropping quite a fair amount even this recent buff did nothing to boost his pick rates to normal values.

Any modification to Ana will just alter the playing field. Her viability is what allows Reinhardt to make his plays. She is a tank healer and she is the type of healer that allows anchor tanks like Rein to stay standing in the ball game quicker. Now that we have Moira and Brigitte and better Dive controllers, we don’t have to worry about people skipping past Reinhardt and going straight for Ana or the point.

Choke fights are coming back.

Moira was an anti dive, she isn’t designed for long duration healing. The notion and expectation for Moira to purely heal is just wrong… that isn’t her job. If you want a consistent healer and a heal slave, you should choose Mercy, not Moira. Moira needs a fine balance of attack and healing to maintain her resource and she works better at peeling DPS heroes and supports like Mercy… what she shouldn’t be doing is engaging Tanks She not designed for Tank take downs and she isn’t designed for prolonged brawls where people are choke fighting. The moment she is out of juice, all the healing goes to the sub support who has to maintain the team by themselves until Moira has juice for another round of heals.

That’s why i say more discussion would be needed.
I’m a strong advocate of 60HP/s. It feels way better for the Mercy player and her team, while it’s not to much for the enemy considering that it’s solo target only. On top of that it’s more in line with the healing power of other sups and is not forcing that “res is the only reason you should pick her” as it is now.
(It’s hard to even say something against 60 HP/s to be honest)
The only thing is that Mercy theoretically heals 33% more with Pacify. But than again, that’s a pointless argument because it’s something which is worked for with skill so…
Yeah I agree now. 60 has to come back rework or not she needs that.

If we do go for the stronger healing then we should not call for an E debuff, because damage reduction will only strengthen her denial of death via healing ability. A good Mercy can sustain her team with 50 or 60HPS. Even 50HPS is enough for Mercy to carry her team through a match, yesterday we couldn’t win our engagements without actually having to force Mercy to us res and then kill her then… she alone was solo sustaining the team and even I was doing everything I can as a Mercy and fought the match to a draw by getting my team to play more disciplined.

50HPS is fine (mind you I was freaking out about the announcement) but after thinking about it… it just another way of saying dive era is now over, we need to adapt and play more safely.

A good Mercy will always be able to enhance the performance of a good team, if her HPs is weak, an E ability can make that HPS stronger by for example, damage reduction via Pacify. Pacify shouldn’t be a high difficulty skill anyways… If it is a frequently obtained ability with a 10 second cool down and is far easier to hit than sleep dart, then it will help Mercy a lot with healing management.

60 HPS is definitely nice but that in itself was one of the reasons we could solo sustain the team and wouldn’t even bother using resurrect.

I’ve won matches without the need to use Valkyrie or Resurrect because her healing was just that good.

We have to understand and recognise that there are skilled Mercy’s out there. 2.0 went wrong because we neglected the Mercy players who played engagingly and aggressively. We don’t want to make the mistake of assuming that Mercy’s must have 60 HPS and another strong ability because she apparently must have it because her base kit is not strong enough without it.

How about single-target buff for teammate instead? Like weaker version of Fortify: teammate is immune to CC and takes less damage for x seconds.

Could work but again it might do better to have a new character with Buff, Debuff specialisation… if anything… Moira and Brigitte were built on the Mercy feed backs.

Mercy shouldn’t have to attack enemy first, even if that ability deals no damage by itself. Being able to reduce damage of key enemy feels too powerful: hitting enemy with ultimate means severe reduction in damage. At the same time, it’s outmatched by sleep dart or any other CC, that completely stops enemy attacks for a moment.

While I support Titanium’s version of Resurrect, I can’t support Pacify ability.

The have both good healing and the ability to reduce damage is too much even if it effects one person. 60 HPS and even 50 HPS can make fights difficult if Mercy is already healing someone in that 1v1 fight. But to burst heal and mass res as well is a bit overkill

[Misericordia-21321]

This never stopped the early season of Mercy when she was an underdog. You literally had to prove yourself with skill and solo sustain the team prior to the 60 HPS bonus.

But you did not understand that in two years the global damage of the game has increased. 50 hps was acceptable, because it was the only main support of the game, it was buffed after 3 months because they saw that it was not enough.

The only reason 50HPS isn’t helping is because people are playing like we still have Mass Res available and are over extending and expect us to follow them to certain death. I win more games by teams not recklessly diving and more people now are playing similar to the 2016 seasons where we play a lot more disciplined and reserved, reducing deaths… allowing heals and disengaging rather than chasing after people.

After a year do you think that people do not have in mind that the mass rez is gone? Are you sure what you write? But even to GM they do not know it?

[Brawl-2310]

Because you cannot out damage the Heal Rate, if hit your chances of actually outdoing that heal rate is more or less pointless and you may as well disengage and take bullets to the back and will likely die and your chance at killing Mercy is rather unlikely.

(I will answer to the big post later)

Than again, we are playing in a team environment where someone else on the enemy team can “pick up the sword” to deal damage. Making Mercy more a back line securer with Pacify than a front line healer. And even in a bad team environment that will apply as well, because of the skill requirement of Pacify.
With 50 or 60, that would stay the same. Only that 50 just feels worse for Mercy and her teammate.

How about single-target buff for teammate instead? Like weaker version of Fortify: teammate is immune to CC and takes less damage for x seconds.

Mercy shouldn’t have to attack enemy first, even if that ability deals no damage by itself. Being able to reduce damage of key enemy feels too powerful: hitting enemy with ultimate means severe reduction in damage. At the same time, it’s outmatched by sleep dart or any other CC, that completely stops enemy attacks for a moment.

While I support Titanium’s version of Resurrect, I can’t support Pacify ability.

First of all, can you elaborate on that? Why you can’t support Pacify? Would be helpful.

Now to the Fortify idea.
It’s probably way too strong and would make Ana a bit useless if Mercy has Res on top of that. It’s almost like res on E, only this time She has Ult res and theoretically Nano boost.

I already said it from time to time. Team utility won’t work well, because it’s either too strong or pointless (Just like with res on E).
Also, what you are saying against Pacify balances out itself. The fact that sleep dart or CC is better for Ult’s than Pacify is wanted. Makes it not oppressive for other sups.
And the Dmg reduction (If the enemy is counterpicking) can also be cleared.

I’m not saying that Pacify is the only ability we could give her, but something like Pacify is indeed the only functional way.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Team utility is only way, Mercy is dedicated support for a reason. Trying to give different version of discord to her would be ok for hybrid healer, though.

Why you can’t support Pacify?

Because it’s that kind of ability, that is broken in 1v1, yet useless if more players involved. Having slow down and cast time makes it even worse.

Any ability, that forces Mercy to slow her movement to use, isn’t good. Pacify risks to end in same spot current rez is - great on paper, but best to avoid using, or use only if situation is already in your favor.

[AkiraNasuki-2927]

But you did not understand that in two years the global damage of the game has increased. 50 hps was acceptable, because it was the only main support of the game, it was buffed after 3 months because they saw that it was not enough.

Damage buff and nerf will always happen as they try to shift the meta. Mercy’s heal rate isn’t terrible so to speak, it’s just not suitable for the current environment like how Ana was not suitable for dive.

Of course you are right, increasing DPS damage means we need more healing but increasing Mercy and maintaining her position is not something Blizzard wants.

There is no better word for it, they want Mercy purged for the time being but not crippled to the extent where no one plays her. Mercy is the new Ana… she had moment in the top of the pick rates and now they need her on the bench as other supports and DPS heroes and tank take up a position in the new Meta and things change.

They are not interested in the mass escalation of Mercy pick rates., of course they would like her to still be popular but not in the lead with a 7 point lead or be at a high pick rate with gradual and rapid escalation in pick rates.

At the moment Pharah, Widow and Hanzo are counters to close combat brawling with Widow and Hanzo being able to provide range damage and piercing damage and Pharah of course being able to hit Brigitte.

If hit scanners are not able to control Pharah, then they will get adjusted so Pharah can be brought under control.

If the OWWC is anything to go by, we are finally at a stage where flex is important and we shouldn’t worry about flexing.

If Pharah is chosen to counter Brigitte, then something needs to be chosen to counter Pharah. Like wise, if Mercy don’t work… then swap if Ana and Moira cannot consistently sustain then go Mercy… if Mercy cannot stay alive then go for Lucio for stalling or Brigitte for assisting offense.

After a year do you think that people do not have in mind that the mass rez is gone? Are you sure what you write? But even to GM they do not know it?

Yes… people are aware but do their playstyle reflect it… the answer is No.

People still jump in like an idiot or over extend and die.

Some even beg for res and the moment I point out it is impossible to res them and that I myself or any Mercy, should not attempt it. Heck I even tell my Mercy not to risk herself to res me if the situation looks bad.

People will still play as if Mass Res is available. Heck I even jokingly tell my team, guys if I still have mass res I can save you guys and over turn this situation but right now I cannot even save you for overextending.

And they have to embarrassingly admit it was their bad.

Like it or not… people are stupid enough to dive in, we all have the tendency to make a mistake in the heat of the moment.

[Brawl-2310]

@Cleopatra-21937

Team utility is only way, Mercy is dedicated support for a reason. Trying to give different version of discord to her would be ok for hybrid healer, though.

Considering that it would be way too strong or too weak it’s not really a good way. Presumably at one point we would get something like that anyway and considering the fact that all the other sups have 1-2 things more to do than Mercy only increases the idea for an interactive skill like that in her kit.
Another Team utility abiltiy would just again be something which would end in the “No skill, blame Mercy” toxicity, not to forget the fact that something like that would be very unbalanced.

Just if you want to take a look at my thought process during the development of the Pacify idea:

@Brawl-2310

2.1. E ability for Mercy

[…]

Utility abilities for the team could make her already too strong as well as healing abilities.
Movement abilities would make her movement just far too good, it would be a movement overkill, so it’s a bad idea as well.
That leaves us only with defensive, offensive and CC abilities.
CC abilities are out of question, we have to much of them already.
So we only have defensive and offensive. Offensivs abilities are no real fit for Mercy so we need to give her a defensive ability with the limitation “Solo target only”.
A defensive, Solo target ability is more likely the best fit as an E ability for Mercy. Everything else has to much potantial to be overpowered.

This is how her basic ability could be changed for a balanced outcome.

That’s the raw pattern how an E ability for Mercy should be. I was thinking about an E abbility for her now since 1 year. No idea so far was really impressive or visualizable.
Pacify was the only thing which more or less created a picture, which can work, instantly after that raw ability idea was worked out. but any way.

@Cleopatra-21937

Because it’s that kind of ability, that is broken in 1v1, yet useless if more players involved. Having slow down and cast time makes it even worse.

I don’t see it as “broken in 1v1, useless in team fights”. It has a very specific in which it is very good (depending on the players skill) or just bad if it gets countered.
The only issue it has right now is the 60 or 50 HP/s with it. Other than that, nothing really bad came up so far.

Also…
I don’t know where read that Pacify slows Mercy’s movement. But the suggestion in the OP has no slow downs at all. only cast times.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Cast time = having to slow down to aim. So, no.
If other team mastered focus fire, Pacify solves nothing: your teammates still die.
If it’s duel, Pacify = teammate wins: damage penalty is a big deal in this situation.

[Brawl-2310]

No not really. A cast time is the time before an ability comes to effect. Like Reinhardt’s Fire Strike. Has a cast time and he still can move, it’s the same for many others. Ana has that as well on sleep dart.

If it’s duel, Pacify = teammate wins: damage penalty is a big deal in this situation.

And that’s the point. The ability is to save teammates against threats.

[Cleopatra-21937]

How often do you see duels for it to matter? 60 hps usually enough for ally to win.

[Halofreak90-2566]

How often do you see duels for it to matter?

Quite a bit, actually, especially when the fight has just started.

[AkiraNasuki-2927]

Than again, we are playing in a team environment where someone else on the enemy team can “pick up the sword” to deal damage. Making Mercy more a back line securer with Pacify than a front line healer. And even in a bad team environment that will apply as well, because of the skill requirement of Pacify.
With 50 or 60, that would stay the same. Only that 50 just feels worse for Mercy and her teammate.

In the upper ranks I have no doubt that this is possible but in other ranks and even in casual QP, it is more or less a matter of filling… heck there are games where I go all out to win and even then the victory is bitter.

As long as the concept of one tricking and trolling exist, there will be matches where you as the Tank or DPS are the MvP and when you are under stress and pressure to pick up the slack for someone else, it isn’t a pleasant feeling when you have to eliminate someone (Mercy) and you cannot do it because who ever is protecting her is having their entire health recovered and your damage already made redundant due to the heal rate and possibly after being hit by Pacify will not make matters better…

When you can’t finish Mercy off, worrying about return from spawn allies… Mercy’s ult charge and the engaged opponent who will not die.

The only time Pacify will make no difference is if there is an engagement where you are outnumbered… when some idiot has died due to over extending and someone else loses their 1 on 1 and there is a 6v4 situation and there are extra players to help assist in the cleaning up of the enemy team.

Also Pacify being a super high difficulty skill is nothing short of a convenient excuse to have it in game. Lets have a powerful ability but make it pin point accurate or come up with some way to make it ‘skilled’

You cannot ignore that Mercy was designed to be entry level healer and is suppose to be friendly to use. Having a random high difficulty ability just for the sake of being called ‘skillful’ is nothing short of being a random add on.

Yes she MUST BE the best healing in the game… yes she MUST HAVE a new powerful ability… and yes she MUST HAVE her old ult, but instead of being immortal… she can BURST HEAL A HIGH AMOUNT to all team mates within range.

To top it off we will have very vague and sketchy sounding restrictions in place in place just to try and sell this idea… but end of the day… Mercy must be dominant!

Now to the Fortify idea.
It’s probably way too strong and would make Ana a bit useless if Mercy has Res on top of that. It’s almost like res on E, only this time She has Ult res and theoretically Nano boost.

I already said it from time to time. Team utility won’t work well, because it’s either too strong or pointless (Just like with res on E).
Also, what you are saying against Pacify balances out itself. The fact that sleep dart or CC is better for Ult’s than Pacify is wanted. Makes it not oppressive for other sups.
And the Dmg reduction (If the enemy is counterpicking) can also be cleared.

I’m not saying that Pacify is the only ability we could give her, but something like Pacify is indeed the only functional way.

Hmmm one could argue that Fortify is the reverse effect of Damage Reduction… instead of reducing the damage of an opponent you increase the defense of an ally.

It won’t impact Ana because Ana gives burst, damage increase and defense increase and she has spammable Burst Heal in her base kit and AoE Burst/Anti Heal

Again there was nothing wrong with Ana just the public perception of her was bad and the current meta and picks did not complement her.

If your team was comprised of Tracer, Genji, Winston and D.Va already selected and you were going to fill as a support… you would have gone for anything but Ana unless you have the divine aim of Ryujehang

Of course Fortify would be a defensive assist ability but the down side is it allows one ally to take less damage from all 6 opponents as oppose to a defensive assist in the form of pacify that reduces the damage of one individual that will deal less damage to all 6 opponents.

They are similar abilities that are both equally good for Mercy but the problem is the value given to ‘Fortify’ i mean we could call it Blessing or Enforcement

Ironically they are similar abilities and be considered the same thing but opposite sides of the coin

[Cleopatra-21937]

Losing healing to use it will hurt though. Unless you somehow snipe enemy from distance, before they even deal damage to your ally.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Thing is, any competent player won’t be dealing damage to 6 opponents, but rather one, that is easier to hit/closer to death. But opposite situation is way more common, when one player is taking damage from multiple.

[Brawl-2310]

There are many situations.
Flanker defense, burst Dmg defense, a big last second save and stuff like that.
Things in the mid fight and in the back line. and healing 50-60 hp/s while the enemy is debuffed by 33% is always better. Not only for Mercy, but for other sups as well.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Once again, only if it’s one enemy.

Maybe I am playing at way too low tiers, but here duels are non-existent, it’s always 1v2 or more.

[Brawl-2310]

Hmmm one could argue that Fortify is the reverse effect of Damage Reduction… instead of reducing the damage of an opponent you increase the defense of an ally.

And as long as the Fortify abiltiy is acktive you can dmg boost that teammate.
It’s the same with Res, only this time Mercy has 2 really good Ult’s. Ana is only back because of the burst heal in Nano. It’s more a Nano on CD, which is really not good and could come out as oppressive with Mass Res.

Sure they have similarities but one is far stronger than the other. And that’s an issue.

You cannot ignore that Mercy was designed to be entry level healer and is suppose to be friendly to use. Having a random high difficulty ability just for the sake of being called ‘skillful’ is nothing short of being a random add on.

Which we didn’t. That why it has a big hit box. To make it more forgiving, an entry level ability for advanced aiming. It’s not just “mimimi more skillful”.

Once again, only if it’s one enemy.

Maybe I am playing at way too low tiers, but here duels are non-existent, it’s always 1v2 or more.

That’s more a team situation in low ranks if you ask me and an ability like Pacify could really help with in that. Overwatch is a game were every second is important, and Pacify, if used well, gives that. reducing one enemies dmg can already be enough to escape.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Escape? Word “retreat” is not in vocabulary of players here. And I just don’t follow suicidal players.

Feels almost like playing TF2: heal from nearby corner and always be ready to fly away.

[Brawl-2310]

I never say retreat… Has something to do with how the word sounds in german and with that this could be associated.
Then say avoiding. Fits better and is more reasonable.

[Halofreak90-2566]

And I just don’t follow suicidal players.

Pacify can make their going in a lot less suicidal.

At any rate, there’s a lot of numbers in Titanium’s rework that can be tweaked should things turn out too weak or too strong, which offers far more options for the dev team than her current kit, which has a very subjective ‘fun’ part, and is either UP or OP, with no middle ground, as we’ve seen.

[Misericordia-21321]

You wrote a papyrus but you did not answer.
I stress and take note that for you the GMs still play as if there were the mass rez.