Communication is nice but I’m fine with none also. Fortnite doesn’t care. They try to balance as they go and I get that. But being in the middle is worse . I feel like the devs are like ‘heard… Don’t care’
Im just stating we have had this conversation at least twice already between me you and cleo.
its just redundant at this point.
you know?
im well aware but experiences do differ from platform to platform as I have shown you on a previous discussion.
different balancing,different default control methods, lower overall specs on console and higher on pc.
there are many limitations and pros to both that massively change the experiences.
I mean, it’s also not platform specific. I play console too and you and I have vastly different opinions. And I see my opinions differ from like, EVEEA and line more with Aria Rose even tho Aria is way lower than me in rank. I line more with hoshi than lumi in terms of ideas even though I play more similar to lumi.
So it’s not like these perspectives are platform , rank or anything specific in form.
Fortnite has to cater to a much wider audience and well with that comes there own set of issues but with the infinity blade they handled that fairly well by vaulting it till it could be properly balanced but fortnite does profiecently keep people like me with adhd with a tendency to like having a lot of fancy toys to mess about with happy overall. (and even then theres still aplenty for those not adhd gifted xd )
but overwatch while I love it a lot has a lot of flaws in many areas that just seem kinda weird to even have been an issue in the first place especially for so long at a time.
and “but sandity” you say " why is it good that they vaulted the infinity blade but not Brigitte in overwatch?!" glad you didn’t ask well contextually for fortnite vaulting 1 op weapon is no big deal as they can easily revisit it later and reimplement it as a better balanced tool to actively improve the games health.
but contextually that can work for overwatch unless say its a map that’s broken since if 1 hero is vaulted thatll cause balance issues.
If we take it as a given that my points are redundant, than I personally would also take it as a given that the points that I am responding to are redundant as well
Further, these forums are not private conversatins between you and I (and/or Cleopatra). For some readers, this may be the first time they are reading about these points
From my point of view, the differences are being overstated.
Both of us are playing Overwatch.
Yes but even if they haven’t partaken in the arguments themselves we have plenty of readers who have seen said argument once,twice,perhaps more.
im well aware and have never claimed it to be as such.
From my point of view the differences are quite understated by people on the console side more then not but where as pc already knows this as fact as they realize the controllers limitations and the impacts on gameplay and balance it potentially has.
theres a reason why console and the pc versions are balanced ever so slightly differently.
yes we have affirmed that to be true afew times now but I suppose I could have forgotten the game I’ve been playing for 500 hours on but that’s really not necessary as that’s also kinda redundant information.
1 Like
If one takes this as a given, is it then not also to be taken as a given that those same individuals have also heard the points that I am responding to already?
Agreed.
I was making a point that while you perceive my points (but apparently as I see it not your own) as redundant; this is from your point of view, not that of all potential readers
Said more simply: that which is redundant to you may not necessarily be redundant to other readers of this thread
I have already stated that I believe the differences are being overstated
I will add here that this last remark from you seems (to me) to indicate that you feel that PC players have more understanding than console players.
I disagree with this statement as well
Perhaps buts its redundant moreso that we continue being redundant by recycling said content.
Progression while still remembering past states is important but over emphasis on said things especially when not backed by facts can become quickly annoying when not relevant anymore to the discussion at said point in time.
its annoying for everyone involved I assure you.
im glad you do.
yes but its redundant futuremore because this already has potential to have been common talking point of other discussion threads and the readers most likely already know for a fact whats what.
repeating info to readers is insulting them in most cases when done over excessively.
both as a person who debates and reads debates frequently.
yes but many readers have already keyed into our conversations before and they also again likely already heard said common talking piece elsewhere.
over exposure to the same info when its already abundantly clear and stated is factually redundant both for the readers and us the debaters in posts.
We just accept the fact the controllers have their limitations and we don’t let our opinion cloud our judgement of them because of the niche use for more casual experiences.
Pc players are usually willing to play on multiple peripherals if given the chance and pc affords them those chances to play each game optimally to their own personal desires.
its just that the understanding of ones technology and the disadvantages to said piece of tech.
especially when said piece of tech wildly changes the gaming experience since in some games it banks on using auto aim assistance among other clever balancing for said control scheme.
its just simple logic by giving up the fact that somehow console and pc are somehow exact carbon copies and accepting the issues with each and with comparing the versions we have the pc would ultimately have the least issues and options available to the player.
its not elitism or anything malicious its just the simple facts of the matter.
controllers are great but are they on parody with m+kb? not really.
that’s why theres an uproar in the console community about m+kb users who are “supposedly” cheating even though this fact of them doing so kinda makes said players using said m+kb close but not exact to the pc experience.
do you understand?
I am not certain about this, and do not wish to put words in your mouth, but it seems in the above comments you are stating that your own remarks are also redundant. I take this from the use of the word “we”. If that is indeed the case (and my apologies instead if I have this wrong) it sounds as if you feel you (too) should not be restating things you’ve already said?
I dont feel anything I have said/written in this thread is irrelevant to the topic or to remarks made within this thread
Further, I feel there are a great number of things relating to Mercy that call for value based judgements, and therefore call for opinion, since fact is not available
Factually, I am involved in this discussion
Factually, i am not annoyed by it
True for some readers, but not for all.
If I take this (purely for sake of argument) to be true , that would then mean (as I see it) that the remarks you keep repeating are also insulting to the readers of these forums
Those readers could simply skip over the repeated (form their experience) content, while readers who have never seen your remarks and my response to said remarks before could read them for the first time
This being your stated belief, then, one is left to wonder why you would repeat the same points you’ve already made.
Personally, I do not find playing games on an xbox to be more casual than playing games on a PC.
I own both devices, and play games on both devices
I personally dont find playing a game on one to be more or less casual than playing a game on the other
Yes because I wish for both of us to stop having to repeat ourselves as this is getting old fast.
progressive debate and all would like to move forward not consistently backpedaling.
which is valid you have some pretty solid posts made about mercy.
i’ll give you that much.
yes I am factually aware of your involvement and am very fine with it as you have more then reasonable then a lot of others who have came here.
Just trying to move the discussion forwards and not backwards again and again.
Factually I can confirm I am and can confirm roughly 5 others.
yes, but the fact still stands that some readers are saying “get on with it” in their mind.
it would apply to both of us yes but moreso to you since you’ve kinda made me had to repeat myself afew times to remind you of past topics long since debated here or elsewhere recently between us.
its important to respect potential readers intelligence and time.
they are free to read whatever they like as a reader but as a debater I will expect them to more diligently read and retain info for their debates.
as I do value peoples intellectual powers and would like to see everyone benefit in the end by getting better at said debating.
that would be the ideal end goal.
positive but slow skill build up like this is massively rewarding for people like me and common courtesy’s aside it would be nice for more people to better debate and refute evidence sources with their own counters.
its all long term in my head at least.
see above about you reasking the same question which then would make me reexplain for you the details.
its all contextual.
Personally I do and so do others who recognize the obvious flaws and pros between the 2 platforms that result in playstyle and meta differences in the long run of the games lifespans.
I own pc but I have played a healthy amount on console aswell but have since sold my console as it slowly stopped using it.
I personally do as the control set ups can allow for more stressless arm resting positions say for controllers but at the expense of aiming accuracy which leads to leaning on aim assist.
which pc doesn’t have to lean on at all as the controls do not have these flaws but even then you aren’t forced to only use kb+m if you don’t want to and experiences can be made wildly easier or harder with better peripherals.
mainly because usually those controllers would have platform specific balancing of their games to account for controller weaknesses.
1 Like
The statements I made that you are responding to above were in response to the following statement made by you “its annoying for everyone involved I assure you”
I am part of the group “everyone involved”
I was not (and am not) annoyed
As such, I disagreed (and still disagree) with your statement
Yes, and they can skip onwards to the next post
factually, the statement of mine that you called into question in this particular exchange was made in response to a repeated remark of yours.
I agree, but I dont see choosing to not share one’s point of view on a discussion forum - which is inherently all about discussion of facts and opinions - as doing so
Factually, the remarksmade by me that you identified earlier as redundant were in response to remarks made by you that I personally see as redundant
You are entitled to your opinion
I see a game on a console being almost entirely like a game on a PC, despite obvious hardware differences
As such, I respectfully disagree
You are entitled to your opinion
I respectfully disagree with this opinion
Of the people I asked I got 5 answers so therefore logically that’s how I came to the conclusion I did.
that’s a personal thing for you though.
figured as much but that’s not really all that important in the grand scheme of things.
yes as a frequenter of the forums I am aware of the readers capability to skip over context and debates to get into further discussion but that’s moreso a personal choice rather then the rule of the land.
yes and I would like us to end the repeating of things we have both clearly explained to the bone of context.
see above
as are you but theres obviously proof online showing the opposite of what your opinion is so I must insist on believing otherwise until sufficient proof comes forward informing me otherwise.
and your entitled to that disagreement as am I but ultimately in the debate backing up said statements or opinions on the matter with even slim if not more then slim evidence for your opinion can make 1 side a lot stronger then the opposite till new evidence is found and that refutes the other.
Factually, those 5 people are not everyone involved.
it is possible they are all involved, and if so, they factually are some of those involved rather than everyone involved
Factually, the fact that I was (and am) not annoyed is related to your comment “its annoying for everyone involved I assure you”. If I am part of everyone involved, and if I am not annoyed, then a statement indicating that everyone involved is annoyed is ergo not a true statement.
Personally, I do not concern myself whether each reader will have already read a statement I made elsewhere, as I have neither any control of it nor any way to predetermine if this will ever be the case; and as already mentioned, they can skip over it easily
If you find this to be a concern for you personally, I would think it’d be best for you not to repeat remarks made elsewhere. That said, this would be an act of self-restraint; as there is to the best of my knowledge nothing in the forum rules that requires you to limit your statements in this fashion.
In my opinion, since the chain of remarks started with you, the best way to pursue this objective would be for you not to repeat yourself. Again, there is no forum requirement I know of that you restrain in this manner, but if thats what you want, that is (or can be) your choice
I am unable to determine from your comment what specific opinion of mine meets the following description “theres obviously proof online showing the opposite of what your opinion is”
Can you specify which opinion of mine is the one you are referring to here, as well as what the “proof online” is. Once you have done so, I can proceed to address your remarks here.
I will patiently await the evidence you are referring to here
I patiently await yours since mine is wrong in some way even though its already obvious from overbuff stats I previously showed you that showed sufficient evidence but sure nice try.
your turn wheres your.
I find Overbuff to be a highly unreliable and incomplete source of data.
Factually, this site still believes the defense category exists and that Symmetra is a support
However, I am still unsure what specific opinion of mine is allegedly disproven, even before talking about the evidence that allegedly disproves it
It’s really disappointing how these professional game devs didn’t even try to ask themselves why those problems existed in the first place. What they did amounted to replacing a car that only needed a tuneup with a lemon.
Even worse, the problems with Mercy 1.0 were EASY FIXES.
Hide n rez was a symptom of a flawed SR system, and was only possible because multirez’s lack of restrictions made it easy to abuse and the invulnerability buff made rez too safe. I get that the devs were trying to do something about the common “suicide rez” problem when they added the buff, but the current bunnyhop alone would have been more than enough to fix it.
Stopping healing to rez only happened because rez was Mercy’s only backup after her base heals got overwhelmed. Why stay in a fight if your team is going to lose even with your base healing? If Mercy had a midfight E ability to fall back on, that tactic wouldn’t have been necessary.
11 Likes
Exactly. If a mercy had 15 rezzes and only 9000 healing, and LOST she wasnt rezzing appropriately compared to a mercy who had only 8 rezzes, 12,000 healing and won.
But they didn’t look at rez to heal ratio, rez to deaths on team ratios, nothing changed. The hide and rez strat should have been PUNISHABLE instead of having that terrible time where Mercy was gaining sr even for a loss based purely on rez numbers.
Why didn’t they want to address the problem to start? Even now, bunny hop isnt officially in the game. I play on console and it’s ridiculously hard to pull off on purpose due to the aim mechanics. And I still see pc vids on how to do it being made/ promoted. Why is it so hard to give the tiny fixes of numbers, but reworking an entire ultimate and hero with animations, voice lines, and NEW numbers is fine?
If they didn’t like the function of mass rez to the community, they could have attempted to actually fix the issues with HOW the community got to that state to begin with.
Because the rez stat is STILL exploitable now! It didn’t even fix the very thing it was supposed to eliminate!
3 Likes
A damage reduction would have sufficed.
6 Likes
All the other healers lack the same level of reliability/consistency.
Mercy 1.0 was able to manage healing much better than where we are at now. Good management resorted in enough timing for peels that she didn’t need burst skills/emergency healing. Her playstyle wasn’t necessarily passive, it was more one that gave time for people to be aware of a need to be cautious for a moment and get heals.
She only needed an emergency skill when it came to massive pushes or ultimate, usually it was the massive pushes in the higher levels used to delay a push for a moment to see if things could be gotten back on top of. That wasn’t necessarily bad, but people don’t like the bring back from the dead.
Moira has less utility than Mercy does and is supposed to be just as dedicated but Moira does not receive as much of the advantages she deserves.
AKA
- Healing through barriers
- Slight boost to mobility so that she can do her healing job better.
Free flight still leaves the problem that you don’t need as much awareness if you can independently fly away to the sky. This means a moment where Mercy’s weaknesses are going to be regularly canceled out when she already has FANTASTIC coping mechanisms for it. That’s not okay, especially for the other supports.
It still promotes easy escapes.
It still heavily promotes running off as Valk more than it should.
You can still GA unless you are hacked so GA-ing about the sky will still be done making it hard to track her meaning she has 3 seconds of very minimal weaknesses when she already has TOP-NOTCH MOBILITY.
Why not just have a jump boost with a cool down? It is predictable enough and won’t cause a Mercy to be violently oppressive with her pistol.
But it provides her with just a small surprise ability that can increase her survivability when alone but also helps her do her main job.
All other healers are capable of same level of reliability/consistency, with some skill added. So it’s not an excuse to make Mercy weakest main healer.
Otherwise you should take away all utility from Ana, because she can heal more than any other healer, and relatively consistent, if player is decent.
People didn’t like, that Mercy had time window of 10 s to use her ult, which meant that ults used to wipe her teammates are nearly guaranteed to be over by the time she flies in. Mind games are disliked by many, and Mercy doesn’t have to commit her ult to fight from the start, unlike other defensive ults, activated at first sight of overwhelming ult stack.
She isn’t. Moira is 50/50 healer/DPS, expected to deal damage as much as healing, to balance both. Blizzard didn’t add a single dedicated hero to support/tank categories.
1 Like