Algorithmic Handicapping (MMR) is Wrong for Overwatch

Competitive Discussion
169

I think you are confusing litmus test with subjective feelings of ‘this is how I think reality works based on nothing but my own shallow personal experience and feelings’.

170

Unless you believe being matched based on your rank is handicapping, which makes the entire concept meaningless, no, he is not.

171

Please clarify. What is the difference between handicapping and an even match?

I think of handicapping as a way to equalize two people/teams of unequal skill. My understanding is that the matchmaker attempts to make two teams of equal skill from the outset. It seems that the matchmaker isn’t handicapping in the usual sporting sense.

Flawed reasoning. Just because someone is at a lower rank than they believe they deserve, doesn’t mean their argument is without merit.

Also, people who benefit from a system rarely question it. It doesn’t mean they understand how it works.

1 Like
172

I pulled that handicapping definition from wikipedia BTW, it’s not just my own personal way of looking at it. It’s an established definition, unlike the way blizzard’s algorithm works. For all we know, it could actually be random, or alphabetical based on our email names for all we know. What we do know:

Is that they match teams based on some hidden formula to equalize your chance of winning. That is the definition of handicapping. It does no one any good to deny that it happens, like the second post (which I was originally replying to from this thread), because it turns into this ridiculous banter that honestly resembles a certain group of people constantly crying fake news when their reality gets challenged with factual information.

So to clarify, handicapping and using some kind of system to equalize (even out) teams, are the same thing. The system can vary, it’s impossible to apply the same style of handicap to every game. If Blizzard was like, well lets just pick teams randomly and whatever team looks worse we will give them a few mulligans from their first tee off, people would be… well probably just as confused as they are now. But, instead of applying golfing rules, they apply an arbitrary algorithm as a variable in order to make things ‘even’. I’m not saying it’s right, or wrong. But seriously, type in “Awful matchmaking” into google, and I promise you Overwatch is front and center. People don’t like how it works. And if it walks like a horse, and talks like a horse, and you google “which horse has awful matchmaking” and it comes up as Overwatch… well. Are they making the game for us? or are they making the game for themselves?

3 Likes
173

Wall of text…
You realize that QP also has MMR match making, yes?

174

I agree 100%

This is why I don’t like reading what you write. Helping players and game has nothing to do with the argument, stop tugging at people’s heart strings.

And while I have you on the line, what is up with your original post? You talk as if you’re a snake oil salesman. You ramble on and on, and get no where. Then, at the end of the paragraph, you reach a conclusion that you did not prove. Like, it’s really grimy what you are doing in the original post.

The original post seems long by design, yet you never reach any solid conclusion, although you claim to. Can you answer to this Cuthbert? :slight_smile:

2 Likes
175

So how do you think matchmaking should be done?

1 Like
176

I’d be happy to accept a job at Blizzard and fix this mess. But, that’s not going to happen, sorry.

177

“Help” is a little vague…but I know that Match Making Rating hurts players. I was an Overwatch player myself, and my concern for my fellow gamers is genuine.

I appreciate your criticism, and I get where you’re coming from if you doubt my objectivity. To this point – and to reply to an earlier question of yours – I am not a disgruntled Blizzard employee. Nor do I work for a competing company.

The original post is a kind of essay, but I didn’t write to academic standards. It follows the golden rule of periodical writing, which is to put the most important points up front. But that necessarily makes for an anticlimactic story, because I’ve said all that needs to be said in the first 500 words (not counting the quotation of Scott Mercer). From there, the post veers away from reporting into opinion.

The original original post (on the closed Battlenet forum) contained more references, such as direct links to Blizzard’s statements about Match Making Rating and an index of other players’ threads on the topic of MMR. I had to remove the links when Blizzard disallowed linking in this new forum. It made the original post less substantial, and I blame Blizzard for that.

I’m not rich, and my time is worth as much as anyone else’s. I’m hanging on to this argument because I know I’m right, and I get joy from exposing deception. Blizzard has deceived players by hiding Match Making Rating from them, and misleading them to believe that the matchmaking system is impartial.

What parts of my argument do you consider to be unfounded? Let’s talk more about those and maybe we can clear them up.

1 Like
178

In sports terminology: If everyone suffers the same handicap, it is no longer a handicap.

Example: If you took one soccer player in the world cup and made him wear a blind fold, and nobody else had to, that player would have a handicap. If you made all the soccer players in the world cup play with blindfolds, then putting a blindfold on a soccer player is no longer a handicap. Obviously you could agree to this, no?

You make such a point to define what handicap is in the OP, but you got it totally wrong.

So bringing it back to OW, if everyone is a slave to the same MMR system, it is not a handicap.

179

But the point of the Match Making Rating system is to treat individual players and groups of players differently, depending on their level of performance, effecting a handicap. To follow your analogy, the system would be blindfolding some players and not others. If Blizzard intended to treat players equitably, they would not use Match Making Rating at all. They would use Skill Rating as the only reference value for creating matches.

1 Like
180

Yes PBSR is an atrocity, but let’s set that aside for now. So, I’m not sure if you’re still talking about PBSR at the end of your response.

MMR does not treat players differently. All are subject to the rules of MMR. Remember, we are not talking about PBSR at this point. We can save that for a later discussion. And also please don’t bring up rank decay. Rank decay may be technically idiotic, but we need to set that aside for this MMR discussion.

1 Like
181

This is so wrong, you must surely be trolling. First of all, handicapping everyone is still a handicap. If you cut off everyone’s legs, they would all be handicapped. Second of all, the handicap isn’t applied to the entire user base indiscriminately, like your example does. The handicap is based off an arbitrary mechanism, an algorithm that’s purpose is to handicap, or equalize the chances of winning.

And if you think that these companies have brilliantly accurate algorithms for determining your needs, I’ll refer you to Netflix’s algorithm for suggesting the same 12 movies since 2012.

182

you taking my words out of context.

Secondly, I want you to go read the dictionary. After you have found the definition of handicap, we can continue this discussion.

2 Likes
183

I hover at about 1400 SR in normal Competitive. I just finished my 3v3 placement matches. Six losses, four wins. It gave me a 3v3 SR of 2150. This just doesn’t feel right. Just give us the formula Blizz :frowning:

2 Likes
184

Again, are you asking for the coding? Or just an explanation on how it works?

And why doesn’t it feel right? It’s a mode with a different objective, different playstyles, and different comps. I’m not as good at elimination matches, so I’m hundreds of SR lower in 3v3, just as I was in FFA. It’s just not the same mode.

Plus, it isn’t as popular as normal comp, so the spread is going to be less drastic, and it’s a different MMR, so ten matches isn’t enough to properly gauge your skill.

185

not the coding, the formula.

1 Like
186

If you knew exactly how heavily weighted your eliminations per minute were, would that change your rank?

Or would it just effect your playstyle and make you focus more on those stats?

2 Likes
187

let’s pretend PBSR doesn’t exist for this discussion.

I want the formula for how they figure out SR gains and losses.

1 Like
188

I’ve literally already posted the definition above and compared it to a quote from Blizzard. This isn’t a discussion on semantics, this is me asking you why you are challenging reality for no reason whatsoever. I don’t understand your refusal to accept a standard definition, and why that even has anything to do with the fact that regardless of what it’s called, people do not like it.

So I ask again, do they make this game for themselves? Or do they make it for their users?

1 Like