Algorithmic Handicapping (MMR) is Wrong for Overwatch

Competitive Discussion
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Play a lot of games, it gets more certain. Don’t play Overwatch for a while, it gets less certain. You go on a large win or loss streak, it gets less certain. The more certain the matchmaker is about your MMR, the less your MMR will change in either direction based on a win or loss.

This one made me laugh, because it’s such a crock of crap.

Last season in QP playing solo I was put up against plats and diamonds fairly regularly. THIS season 1/2 my team or worse are silvers and even bronze, while the MM puts Plat - High Plat and even diamonds on the enemy team.

I know I know, everyone says it’s cause I suck… And maybe they are right, but you’d think after 8000 freakin games played the MMR system would realize where I should be placed? Before the year of the Brigitte, I placed 2000-2500 consistently, I was never a silver, or a bronze player, and I have rickrolled plats and diamonds from time to time, and on rare occasions even Masters. Now I don’t even want to do comp based on what my MMR tells me in QP.

Look I get placing some lower ranks in with higher ranks, but there’s a fuq’ing limit to what a skilled person can do in terms of carrying 50-66% of the team.

Now I understand why my hook accuracy on Roadhog is better than most GM’s. It’s because I’m constantly going against people way below my skill tier.

Traditional FPS games didn’t use a balance system, who you got is who you played with, and if you went against the #1 Widowmaker in the world then so be it.

That’s what REAL competitive gaming really is: “Learn from the best or die like the rest.”

This artificial skill plateau is the reason match making is crap.

Let people learn through the hardknock life like real Professional FPS gamers did.

Yes you are going to get your butt kicked against pros, but you are also going to learn what works and what doesn’t by playing with, and against them.

The only time a balance system should be considered in this game are in groups. Then force a balance as you see fit, but if you are solo matchmaking, the system hurts these people rather than helps them.

What this game has and calls competitive gameplay is the farthest thing from it. What overwatch league is doing is what real competitive gameplay really is. Scrimages, Schedules, League and Tourney style competitions. So don’t be fooled by your rank in this game, it’s not even remotely close to representing real competitive gameplay. But, even OWL has issues. It’s great all the best players play against the best players, but what about the rest of us? We can’t learn if we don’t play against those teams. That’s what traditional practice, and scrimages did for REAL professional gamers, whom had to adhere to a schedule for matches that actually mattered. None of what you do in COMP on a seasonal basis has any meaning what-so-ever.

People criticize me especially the plats and diamonds for being a semi-one trick whom doesn’t play Comp very often, and while that may be true, why do they struggle to kill me on their mains? Because I have way more wrench time in the game than they do. While I think it’s great they have a natural skill to place at good ranks, experience weighs heavily on my assertions that I can kill your gengoo main despite what you think being 2800-3300. And when you do get rolled by me, the question you should be asking even if you win the game is, “How does it feel to get owned by a low gold?” Yes I’m a low gold, but it’s not my fault the MM system doesn’t work the way they’d like it to. Because it can’t factor in experience levels. Do I think I’m a GM of course not, But that doesn’t mean I don’t want to play against them, quite the opposite, if I had my choice I’d want to play exclusively with and against them.

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Re-re-re-worded you want the game to just put people on teams based on SR and not balanced by a calculation beyond that which puts an artificial balance for players that do not belong in the rank they are in?

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The current system is cancerous to say the least, babysitting every single game one or multiple individuals is not fun in any way. So many have quit and many more will follow, this is not what competition is about. If you are better than someone else you should stomp that player and not put you in a team with 5 other terribads to carry. Frustrating is an understatement when it comes to Overwatch, never have I experienced such a terrible system catering to comunism.

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It’s real simple…take mmr stat you earned to get to lvl 25. Use that stat for placements. Replace mmr with placements final stat. Then use that stat in the first game as a “balanced” and switch to a win/loss standardized win/loss SR payout.

Each season…the placement stat is used as the balance for the first game. Are there flaws in that system…yeah…but not nearly as much as constantly re balancing to achieve a 50% chance balance modifier. Its already hard working with a team…we don’t need a complicated RNG system to further the handicap.

I’m sure you spent a lot of money on the analytics of that system. And it does work for placements…but after that…its an un-necessary handicap.

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If player a played since the beta, and in season 1 was playing with 1 of the devs, and 1 of the devs told player a that for the rest of your playing time from when you first place you will have a very hard time climbing since the system will try to hold you at you first rank.

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The new voices that continue to join this debate, on the side of reason, are so encouraging. A lot of what’s been written lately deserves more detailed reply, from me if not from Blizzard themselves. But I’m going through a time of medical emergency with my father and I can’t devote much time/energy to this. I also have a baby on the way.

I promised a YouTube podcast episode based on the original post of this thread, and new threads on topics related to handicapping/Match Making Rating. I don’t know if I’ll get back to those things.

Players, please make your own theads on this subject. Tell Blizzard that you want fair competitive play, that you’re tired of being manipulated like slot-machine zombies. Recognize that the odds are being stacked against you, and that the house always wins. This is not what online multiplayer games are supposed to be.

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Best wishes towards your dad and congrats on the baby, Cuthbert.

Take all the time you need. :slight_smile:

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Thanks so much Sheevah! It’s been great talking to you. I’ll be around from time to time.

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Likewise. We may not agree on everything, but I definitely appreciate all the back and forth we’ve had. I’m sure we’ll cross paths again sometime soon, but until then, take care of yourself and your family.

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It takes a very long time for the general public IQ’s to catch on to things being different than what they are told. Every season that goes by more and more people are realizing that there is something wrong with the matchmaker and that ranking up is far more difficult than it should be. I could actually prove it in person if I had a group of developers and enough time but I know that wouldn’t happen, so all we can do is wait for enough people to catch on and the overwhelming majority demand a remake on the matchmaker. Then we’ll need to hope that they create it without any type of balancing, manipulation etc from the matchmaker.

I don’t enjoy being the voice of bad news but the fact that their other games like Hearthstone etc have the same rigged type of matchmaking doesn’t leave much hope.

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You’re saying a lot I agree with there but let me just reply to the last part. I am also really worried to see this kind of behind-the-scenes rigging becoming an industry norm. This is why we need better consumer protection law for video games. Video game companies must be required to disclose “balancing” (handicapping) in the terms of use for their products. Unless they are forced to do so, they will continue to deceive and manipulate their customers for maximum profit, just as Blizzard has done with Overwatch.

It has been really good talking to you as well S23 :slight_smile:

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It’s been a good discussion/awareness that I’ve enjoyed and I wish it would continue as a thorn in the side of Overwatch development team. They have a lot to answer for, not just the “handicapping” but what I am even more passionate about; the deliberately rigged matches that are designed to make you lose for whatever reason. I am not speculating that this is what happens, I know this is what happens and could prove it in front of a room full of people, I actually know how to rig the matches to create forced loss (and win) streaks.

What makes me shake my head when I think about this is when I imagine the developers reading all these people on the forums talking about how they experience rigged loss streaks. The devs read these posts and see people calling them “delusional” or insinuating that they’re idiots when it’s actually quite the opposite, and yet they just sit there and never come in and say “actually they’re correct, they figured it out”. They let people who were clever enough to see the pattern get vilified instead of sticking up for them and vindicating them; I honestly don’t think I could sit by and let that happen so I wonder what types of people they are.

I know that’s a bit dramatic but it’s really what I think about at times and it makes me shake my head.

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Care to prove it here?

Okay, first off, noticing a pattern doesn’t actually prove something. Humans constantly see patterns where none exist. That’s how our brains work. Secondly, you’re questioning the morality of people you’ve never met based on the fact that they won’t confirm your wild accusations?

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bravo bravo! good show ol chap good show!

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if blizzard disclosed the formula for MMR, we would never have to see these types of posts again. I think that alone, is worth it!

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Lol, yes we would. We’d just have people making posts calling them liars, because they can’t accept that it’s anything other than their own performance holding them back.

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some yes, but not Cuthbert. I think Cuthbert has noticed these types of people and added fuel to the fire. I’m not sure why Cuthbert spreads this unfounded propaganda. Perhaps a disgruntled ex-employee would be the scenario that makes the most sense to me. Or perhaps he is very rich and has all the time in the world to feed on the souls of those with a low SR.

Either way Cuthbert is correct, hidden MMR is an atrocity and a black stain on Overwatch Competitive.

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That’s the thing. I don’t believe that people even understand what they’re specifically talking about when they rail against hidden MMR.

Are they against a hidden rank in general? Because SR pretty much already acts as the visible indicator of MMR, and unless you’re on a new account, is about the same as your MMR.

Are they against hiding the function? Because the actual function is pretty well understood. Winning is good, losing is bad. The only people who tend to really be impacted by MMR vs SR are the ones obviously not in their correct rank; the Tracers consistently getting 40 elims a match, or the Reins with 20 deaths. So are they asking for an explanation on the function, which exists because it’s been tested and tried since competitive launched, or are they asking for the actual breakdown of the code?

All that getting rid of MMR would do is make it take longer for people to get situated into their actual ranks. It’s not an atrocity or black stain just because people use it as an excuse to pretend Blizzard hates them on a personal level.

They’d also need to completely change SR decay for Diamond and up, which is another discussion.

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this is how I equate this.

Let’s say I was an NFL coach. I show up for the first game and see the NFL commissioner. I ask him “How do we get to the Super Bowl?” And he just kinda shrugs his shoulders.

I mean what the actual !!!

This is not a game of cards, where hidden information is part of the game.

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But you would still know how to get to the Super Bowl, because it’s obvious to anyone that actually looks. The NFL doesn’t have to explain how it works when it’s pretty much as basic as, “win more than your peers,” and pretty much every fan already understands.

Same thing with Overwatch. They don’t have to let us review the entire code of the game for us to understand how it functions. It’s a pretty basic competitive setup for the average player, in that winning is good and losing is bad.

The only time it gets relatively complicated is for new accounts or people obviously not in their correct rank, for whatever reason. Even then, it’s still generally basic in function, and is understood. People couldn’t have consistently exploited it via one-tricking low pick heroes if it weren’t understood. Winning is still the obvious goal.

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