Because you consistently exceed the matchmaker’s expectations until you finally achieve a rank where you don’t anymore?
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And then Im at the rank I deserve!
How is that rigged or wrong or whatever?
It’s not that you won’t climb into your true peer group eventually, it’s that in the meantime there is an algorithm that is using historical player data to arrange teams to satisfy it’s expectations. It’s predictions are only as good as it’s data, and as you and the other people on both teams play more and more matches and as you get closer to your true rank it becomes better and better at arranging “fair” teams.
For example, imagine you are literally the best player there is: you could 1v6 the NYXL. You start a new account in bronze. The matchmaker has no data on you, so it can’t do much one way or another. You rank up to gold, say 2300. It has a little more data on you now, and knows you are an extreme outlier at your rank (i.e. your k/d ratio is way above average, or whatever the relevant metric is). At this point it’s actively matching you up against what it thinks are the six other best players at that rank and matching you with the five worst players at that rank because it’s doing it’s best to prevent you from absolutely dumpstering every team you play against (i.e. it’s trying it’s best to achieve a coin flip match). It doesn’t matter, you’re so good you still stomp. This process continues until you reach a rank (i.e. a general level of player skill) where the consistent stomping slows down and eventually ends - the matchmaker reaches an “equilibrium” if you will.
Now compare that story with the case where you are just paired with eleven random people each match. You will necessarily stomp harder and more often on your inevitable climb because some algorithm isn’t actively working against you. The individual matches themselves will be more one sided, but the process of you getting to your true rank will be less drawn out and painful for everyone involved. If i remember the OP correctly this is part of his larger argument - distributing players in this way unnecessarily draws out the player skill-sorting process by trying to make the individual matches “fair.”
I mean, assuming the matchmaker actually works this way, of course.
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Nopes. You put me in bronze and I absolutely dumpster on everyone until mid-high gold, then I carry until mid plat, and then I’m a little better than the average and climb more slowly.
I did this 5 times or so, and all the randoms are about the same skill level. The only times this doesnt happen is when I’m >500; since there’s no people there I get put in 1.1k games, and I get the better team since they get a >500 dude they need to compensate for.
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No. it does NOT do that. You get random teammates close to your present rank and you also get random opponents close to your present rank.
You can literally have a game where one team just so happens to be 6-solos of 2300 smurfs, all who have main accounts at Masters and above, vs 6-solos of legit 2300 players. The actual matchmaker does not give a damn how you got to 2300.
∆ This.
MMR matching happens at 3k+, so i dont get matched with a decayed GM…
But fear not, there are as many smurfs in diamond than in bronze to plat combined, and, by the way, these people are actually good (unlike the people you meet smurfing at lower ranks).
The funny thing is that you don’t see diamonds/master crying on forums every day, we just accept it and move on.
Source? (Characters.)
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The onus is on you to provide the source that the scenario you posted about happens, that someone that can 1v6 the NYXL who happens to be ranked at 2300, is matched with the worst 2300SR players as teammates, to take on the best 2300SR players as opponents. No, Cuthbert does not count as a source.
And for what it’s worth, I don’t have a source that a theoretical godlike 2300SR player gets randomly matched with any other 2300SR players to take on a randomly assembled team of 2300SR opponents. But I’m also not the one making a statement about “handicapping” using irrelevant evidence.
My extreme example was simply meant to illustrate the mechanism OP described, and I did caveat it by saying “assuming the matchmaker actually works this way, of course.” I don’t understand why you can demand irrefutable evidence but then claim the contrary without support, though. Anyway, would be nice if someone cleared it up so we could at least be sure about what we’re debating.
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Fair enough, I did skip over that last line you typed the first time I read through it before replying.
All Blizzard statements throughout this forum, Twitter, etc. has been compiled in Kaawumba’s topic as I linked above.
In particular, to note, MMR is the sole criteria of how people are matched (reference 25 in Kaawumba’s references list towards the very bottom of his opening post), and SR being a more “digestible” form of MMR (reference 22).
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Not the point of the story, bro. I’m not a plat player who threw down to silver for grins and giggles, bro. I did solo queue (before the LFG system), and lost down to there in placements and subsequent games due to bad teammates, bro. My skills obviously didn’t change, bro. So, when I started getting competent teammates, I was able to climb, bro.
Let me guess, this is where you say I was carried by a lucky string of complete strangers in solo queue, bro? Why do you White Knights find that so easy to believe, but you scoff at a string of bad teammates causing a flaw, bro?
Btw, you need to work on that reading comprehension, bro.
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You are probably gold then, and peaked plat but you are not at the average plat skill.
(because, you know, you wouldnt drop to silver otherwise)
I believe I stated that I dropped down to silver due to bad teammates. I think I was pretty clear about that. That’s why I was able to climb back up to plat.
Now, I may not of said this, but I’m saying it now. I can hold my own in plat if I have competent teammates, and proved it by performing better than 70% of people in plat even in losing sessions.
Please, for the love of all things good, work on that reading comprehension. If you don’t know the definition of a word, then look it up.
Jesus wept, less Overwatch and more reading people.
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In the year-and-a-half since I started this thread, I have shared your sentiment many times. It often feels less like I’m fighting Blizzard, and more like I’m fighting the low literacy levels of the American public.
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You assume that handicapping does not occur. Please explain where an outlier within a rank can be matched in a match that makes it 50% win chance without evening out both sides of MMR?
I am climbing and getting better as I go, I finished Gold, low point was Bronze. I am the opposite of someone stating the system will not allow me to climb. My next goal is to get as close to Plat this season as I can. But, again, this is attacking me, and not the argument. You have not given an argument, just a plethora of Ad Homonym and deflection as if me being “Gold” makes me some how unfit to have an opinion or an argument.
You are mistaking “handicapped” with a system that prohibits you to climb. These are two distinct conditions. One is a method to which teams are matched to level out the outliers within a match, the other is a roadblock.
I have improved and try to work on myself, and I work on it whenever I sit to play the game. I have several hours of my games recorded. I review them. I post some of them on YouTube to watch when I am not at home. You assume I do not do these things.
No one is stating that the system is not good at determining skill. In fact the better the system is at determining your skill, the better it can make the matches even.
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The last place team in the NFL gets first round draft pic next season. Handicapping can make sense in competitive play.
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I’ve been suspicious that there’s a hidden mechanic in matchmaking that does influence win rate. I’ve had it ever since Jeff made a statement about how your you always gain SR on a win, but your MMR may not increase. This is based on your performance.
Basically, if you win with poor performance the matchmaker concludes that you were carried. It then tries to bring your SR and MMR closer together through some unknown mechanism.
I think the mechanism is the matchmaker creates matches that are not 50/50. In essence, it stacks the deck against you. It creates a match that you are not supposed to win unless you play above and beyond.
It could also do this if you’ve gone a big winning streak because the matchmaker is unsure of your actual MMR. This is all conjecture, but it does match what people report.
Sad thing is, all the cloak and dagger crap wouldn’t be necessary if SR changed purely based on individual performance. There would be no need for handicapping or blaming teammates for losses. If you perform well, then you gain SR regardless of match outcome.
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The most likely cause is how severely mmr moves. If mmr moves too severely compared to sr, then a “balanced” match could be completely unbalanced due to over eager mmr assumptions. We have no idea of the numbers, but for example let’s say a player on a 15 game win streak could now have their mmr sitting around GM level but still in gold. The match maker will now “balance” the teams and that player will need to lose enough games to bring their mmr back in line. Win streaks explained - especially as this effect would be greatest at career highs.
Mmr needs to be tied to SR so this type of thing can’t happen.
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Liar! Match Making Rating makes team assignment anything but random.
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Bro, I smurfed 3 seasons from >500 to mid plat.
There is little skill variance in each rank, and you can clearly see how people higher do stuff that people lower don’t.
Example:
A silver pharah presses Q.
A gold pharah cancels a missile into barrage.
A plat pharah can 180, boost the ground, 180 and cancel into ult.
There is no “great skill variance” in the same rank.
My oppinion (you are free to disagree) is that the variance you see is
1- tilt. Its very rare to find a low Sr player that plays for fun and accepts their rank.
They think they are better than they are and tilt when something doesn’t go their wat (team comp, someone on a hero they don’t like, losing a fight, etc). So they tilt very hard and play quite worse.
2- players at low Sr fail to understand how the game snowballs and think a stomp is them being spanked by better players, instead is them being spanked by equal skilled players that played their cards better.
3- you need to acknowledge that rank isn’t a single skill. I met “Smurfs” or “aimbotting” (according to my team) and everyone was already crying on the hero select screen.
Most of the time It turns out the guy has next tier aim (but lower tier positioning) and he’s super easy to kill. But they died twice to the soldier standing in front of reins shield and they already give up.
And that’s what I think. Bottom line is that we all play the same game, some climb, some don’t, some fall.
At low ranks you can even check super easy If you belong (win and lose the same amount of SR) or if you are performing better or worse (bonus or penalty on wins and losses).
Also there are very few Smurfs in low ranks (compared to diamond), and if you try your hardest as a team you can learn (and sometimes win too!)
Also… Just listen to high ranks, they got there by putting the effort, gaining the experience and there are MANY high ranks, right here in this forum, willing to teach anyone how to climb.
Why not give it a try? It may or may not work for you, but complaining will definitely not
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