Algorithmic Handicapping (MMR) is Wrong for Overwatch

No. it does NOT do that. You get random teammates close to your present rank and you also get random opponents close to your present rank.

You can literally have a game where one team just so happens to be 6-solos of 2300 smurfs, all who have main accounts at Masters and above, vs 6-solos of legit 2300 players. The actual matchmaker does not give a damn how you got to 2300.

∆ This.
MMR matching happens at 3k+, so i dont get matched with a decayed GM…

But fear not, there are as many smurfs in diamond than in bronze to plat combined, and, by the way, these people are actually good (unlike the people you meet smurfing at lower ranks).
The funny thing is that you don’t see diamonds/master crying on forums every day, we just accept it and move on.

Source? (Characters.)

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The onus is on you to provide the source that the scenario you posted about happens, that someone that can 1v6 the NYXL who happens to be ranked at 2300, is matched with the worst 2300SR players as teammates, to take on the best 2300SR players as opponents. No, Cuthbert does not count as a source.

And for what it’s worth, I don’t have a source that a theoretical godlike 2300SR player gets randomly matched with any other 2300SR players to take on a randomly assembled team of 2300SR opponents. But I’m also not the one making a statement about “handicapping” using irrelevant evidence.

My extreme example was simply meant to illustrate the mechanism OP described, and I did caveat it by saying “assuming the matchmaker actually works this way, of course.” I don’t understand why you can demand irrefutable evidence but then claim the contrary without support, though. Anyway, would be nice if someone cleared it up so we could at least be sure about what we’re debating.

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Fair enough, I did skip over that last line you typed the first time I read through it before replying.

All Blizzard statements throughout this forum, Twitter, etc. has been compiled in Kaawumba’s topic as I linked above.

In particular, to note, MMR is the sole criteria of how people are matched (reference 25 in Kaawumba’s references list towards the very bottom of his opening post), and SR being a more “digestible” form of MMR (reference 22).

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Not the point of the story, bro. I’m not a plat player who threw down to silver for grins and giggles, bro. I did solo queue (before the LFG system), and lost down to there in placements and subsequent games due to bad teammates, bro. My skills obviously didn’t change, bro. So, when I started getting competent teammates, I was able to climb, bro.

Let me guess, this is where you say I was carried by a lucky string of complete strangers in solo queue, bro? Why do you White Knights find that so easy to believe, but you scoff at a string of bad teammates causing a flaw, bro?

Btw, you need to work on that reading comprehension, bro.

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You are probably gold then, and peaked plat but you are not at the average plat skill.

(because, you know, you wouldnt drop to silver otherwise)

I believe I stated that I dropped down to silver due to bad teammates. I think I was pretty clear about that. That’s why I was able to climb back up to plat.

Now, I may not of said this, but I’m saying it now. I can hold my own in plat if I have competent teammates, and proved it by performing better than 70% of people in plat even in losing sessions.

Please, for the love of all things good, work on that reading comprehension. If you don’t know the definition of a word, then look it up.
Jesus wept, less Overwatch and more reading people.

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In the year-and-a-half since I started this thread, I have shared your sentiment many times. It often feels less like I’m fighting Blizzard, and more like I’m fighting the low literacy levels of the American public.

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You assume that handicapping does not occur. Please explain where an outlier within a rank can be matched in a match that makes it 50% win chance without evening out both sides of MMR?

I am climbing and getting better as I go, I finished Gold, low point was Bronze. I am the opposite of someone stating the system will not allow me to climb. My next goal is to get as close to Plat this season as I can. But, again, this is attacking me, and not the argument. You have not given an argument, just a plethora of Ad Homonym and deflection as if me being “Gold” makes me some how unfit to have an opinion or an argument.

You are mistaking “handicapped” with a system that prohibits you to climb. These are two distinct conditions. One is a method to which teams are matched to level out the outliers within a match, the other is a roadblock.

I have improved and try to work on myself, and I work on it whenever I sit to play the game. I have several hours of my games recorded. I review them. I post some of them on YouTube to watch when I am not at home. You assume I do not do these things.

No one is stating that the system is not good at determining skill. In fact the better the system is at determining your skill, the better it can make the matches even.

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The last place team in the NFL gets first round draft pic next season. Handicapping can make sense in competitive play.

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I’ve been suspicious that there’s a hidden mechanic in matchmaking that does influence win rate. I’ve had it ever since Jeff made a statement about how your you always gain SR on a win, but your MMR may not increase. This is based on your performance.

Basically, if you win with poor performance the matchmaker concludes that you were carried. It then tries to bring your SR and MMR closer together through some unknown mechanism.

I think the mechanism is the matchmaker creates matches that are not 50/50. In essence, it stacks the deck against you. It creates a match that you are not supposed to win unless you play above and beyond.

It could also do this if you’ve gone a big winning streak because the matchmaker is unsure of your actual MMR. This is all conjecture, but it does match what people report.

Sad thing is, all the cloak and dagger crap wouldn’t be necessary if SR changed purely based on individual performance. There would be no need for handicapping or blaming teammates for losses. If you perform well, then you gain SR regardless of match outcome.

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The most likely cause is how severely mmr moves. If mmr moves too severely compared to sr, then a “balanced” match could be completely unbalanced due to over eager mmr assumptions. We have no idea of the numbers, but for example let’s say a player on a 15 game win streak could now have their mmr sitting around GM level but still in gold. The match maker will now “balance” the teams and that player will need to lose enough games to bring their mmr back in line. Win streaks explained - especially as this effect would be greatest at career highs.

Mmr needs to be tied to SR so this type of thing can’t happen.

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Liar! Match Making Rating makes team assignment anything but random.

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Bro, I smurfed 3 seasons from >500 to mid plat.
There is little skill variance in each rank, and you can clearly see how people higher do stuff that people lower don’t.

Example:
A silver pharah presses Q.
A gold pharah cancels a missile into barrage.
A plat pharah can 180, boost the ground, 180 and cancel into ult.

There is no “great skill variance” in the same rank.

My oppinion (you are free to disagree) is that the variance you see is

1- tilt. Its very rare to find a low Sr player that plays for fun and accepts their rank.
They think they are better than they are and tilt when something doesn’t go their wat (team comp, someone on a hero they don’t like, losing a fight, etc). So they tilt very hard and play quite worse.

2- players at low Sr fail to understand how the game snowballs and think a stomp is them being spanked by better players, instead is them being spanked by equal skilled players that played their cards better.

3- you need to acknowledge that rank isn’t a single skill. I met “Smurfs” or “aimbotting” (according to my team) and everyone was already crying on the hero select screen.

Most of the time It turns out the guy has next tier aim (but lower tier positioning) and he’s super easy to kill. But they died twice to the soldier standing in front of reins shield and they already give up.

And that’s what I think. Bottom line is that we all play the same game, some climb, some don’t, some fall.
At low ranks you can even check super easy If you belong (win and lose the same amount of SR) or if you are performing better or worse (bonus or penalty on wins and losses).

Also there are very few Smurfs in low ranks (compared to diamond), and if you try your hardest as a team you can learn (and sometimes win too!)

Also… Just listen to high ranks, they got there by putting the effort, gaining the experience and there are MANY high ranks, right here in this forum, willing to teach anyone how to climb.

Why not give it a try? It may or may not work for you, but complaining will definitely not

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Why don’t you post an actual hard link to where Scott Mercer says that MMR is used to handicap players then?

You probably shouldn’t be calling me a liar when your entire opening post is based off a lie.

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This is flat out wrong (at least for silver, gold and plat), and here’s why.

I’ve played in all three ranks, and I’ve known for a long time not to trickle. There are people in all three ranks that do that. Variance in skill, and this applies to other core aspects of the game (i.e. changing heroes when countered).

There you’ve not only proved variance within a rank, but variance within a person! If a person is playing tilted for a significant number of games, then they are playing below their SR/MMR. That is the very definition of variance.

I know how the game can snowball once a team gains momentum through good tactics. So, if people my rank don’t understand this, then that will affect their play ability. Therefore, they are playing lower than their SR/MMR if it is close to or above mine. Also, you can’t snowball in the first 30 seconds of the match. Snowballing doesn’t explain bad play right out of the gate.

If you have multiple skills that determine rank, and you can have people at the same rank with different levels of these skills, then by definition you have variance in ability within a rank.

Yeah, and I can work three dead-end jobs and become richer than Trump. People are putting in the effort and still failing. There are other factors besides personal effort and skill at work here, and that’s what we’re complaining about.

We don’t want a handout. We want a fair chance. We want to be matched with people of similar skill, not those who will carry us or have to be carried by us. This is the mark of a truly competitive system.

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Rolleyes. Do you understand how competitive games work? (It’s a rethorical question, please don’t answer).

Every 2500 player is, ON AVERAGE, as good. There is no 3000 player stuck at 2500.

So, you don’t trickle. They do.
Trickling is literally throwing the game.
Let me get this straight, you are being matched with people that throw and are so bad that don’t even realize it.

Have you considered that, being the same rank as you, it’s possible that you are doing something terribly wrong, that is AT LEAST as bad as their trickling?

I mean, when I play in plat I can just flank and kill like… 4 people (one person every 15-20 sec) and insta win (because everyone trickles).

Why can’t you do that? Like… you say you are better than them…

You are right bro, nice semantics! You win, I was wrong. The system is rigged and I probably imagined all the times I had a lose streak and then hard carry without any effort.
It’s not like I have to literally throw or im unable to lose in gold rank.

You are literally asking for a handout. You want matchmaking to change because you are adamant about not putting any effort into improving at the game.

You consider yourself better than your rank and still fail to climb

So keep being gold or plat or whatever you are, keep crying I’ll just be chilling here reading your nonsense.

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The original post already opens with a lengthy quotation from Scott Mercer. Anyone who can’t understand that Match Making Rating is a handicapping system is a fool. Anyone who denies it is a liar, even if they are oblivious.

This forum doesn’t allow links to external sites or even pages on the same site. The original version of the thread had links to many such resources, so you can tell Blizzard if want them.

Get your facts straight before addressing me!

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