Algorithmic Handicapping (MMR) is Wrong for Overwatch

That’s most likely, because you play the healer in a manner, that is not favored by the personal performance factor… thus regardless of you topping the healing, your MMR suffers, you get bad allies.

I am actually considering soft throwing just to see what would happen.
Climbing as a support is a nightmare. The intuitive way to play support is usually not the right way, if you wanna climb.

An example from the earlier seasons… Mercy focusing on healing is having it worse, than hide & res + pistol Mercy.

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MMR is a way to try and introduce dynamic matchmaking.

YOUR matchmaking is different than the next guy’s.
It’s based on YOUR play.

What’s does OW call an even match for YOU?

For us, it’s… my duo partner getting gold heals as Hog. Not just once, but like half the time.

We just do NOT get good teams. I feel the reason is because the system is trying to force us wherever it thinks we belong. A game should be random, and not be trying so hard to rig the matches.

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What’s a dynamic matchmaking? What does that even mean?

That also doesn’t really say anything.

The problem is when you play with bad players, that clearly should not be in your team, but for whatever reason… well, are.

If they have similar MMR to yours, that means that they are “stat hunting”, as in they do stuff the personal performance factor values, which are not necessarily contributing for a win, which is why you see them as bad.

If they have significantly lower MMR than yours, then the question would be why are they matched with you in the first place…

Unfortunately, we don’t see our MMR displayed, so we can’t tell exactly what the problem is.
Blizzard are refusing to display MMR, despite allowing us to see it in other games (like WoW).

Blizzard have given the ridiculous excuse in the past, that for some reason MMR is not a 4 digit number and thus we can’t understand it, or some nonsense along those lines.
The problem with that statement is, it’s stupid beyond belief.
Numbers can be translated from one numerical system to another.
MMR is an estimation of where you belong on the ladder, your potential of how high you can reach if you keep on playing consistently. Thus it will pertain to rating (which is a 4 digit number) and it can be translated to a 4 digit number.
So I imagine while rating is between 1 and 5K, MMR can probably reach up to 6K (to account for the best of the best, including professional players).

The real reason Blizzard are not displaying it, is that the moment Blizzard does, people will immediately figure out the problems and why some players shouldn’t have been in your team in the first place.


Another potential issue with the system is the following:

Blizzard’s iteration is based on True Skill. One of the features of that system is to self correct… as in to retroactively adjust your MMR based on the games of your opponents.

Say you win against some players. Your current rating increases (the one you see), also your MMR increases.
Say your opponents get pissed off to the point, that they decide to throw games.
The system then decides “those are bad players, perhaps I awarded you too much for winning against them, so I’ll retroactively reduce your MMR (which you cannot see)”.

Would you be OK with winning… say 10 games today, logging out, then the next time you start the game you see, that your MMR have dropped without you even playing? This is probably one of the reasons they don’t display MMR.

For me it used to be me with my duo partner killing the enemy team as Moira+Zen alone and pushing the payload alone (we’re talking high Platinum SR), while the rest of the team complains, that they don’t receive heals, because a lone Genji is keeping them at spawn.

I tell them “pick a third healer, Lucio or something, so you can even reach us, you guys don’t seem to do any damage anyways” (this was pre 222, hell, even pre goats).

And before someone says “you’re throwing”, we won 12 games one after another with this setup, even the games with so terribad allies somehow. I placed High Plat, so did my friend, and we played few more games, so he can touch Diamond… and we stopped. The whole thing was too stressful (and I’m not a little kid with anxiety, I’m a 32 year old man, although this was 2-3 years ago).

I want more consistent games, where everybody does just job more or less proportionally, as opposed to having to hard carry and do everything.
And this is more or less a good measure of what is fair match.
If you feel under constant pressure, like you’re barely doing all you wanna do in a match, because the rest of the team is underperforming constantly, that is not a fair match.
If you actually have moments to think and do what you’re meant to do without the constant pressure, then it’s either an even match, or it’s a match in your favor.

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That’s exactly it. Like you say, this effect is especially noticeable for players who play well together in groups and pairs. MMR is systematically sandbagging you with the worst 4 players, out of the 10 other players in each match. That is what I’m trying to make players understand…this is a horrible and backwards system for ranked competitive play!

I have edited the original post again, for probably the 1,000th time in 3 years. If anyone is interested to see the differences please have another read. I’ve added a link to the original post in this forum, which features a bigger poll.

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UP UP UP people need to know

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What does dynamic matchmaking mean?

It adjusts to your recent play. 2100 games are not just 2100 games, all the time, the same for everyone. If you swap to an off hero, suck at it, soon the game adjusts to force an even match with YOU in it. Now your matchmaking is easier than the player who’s been on fire and the matchmaker creates a match for them to be even… by making them carry.

The crap player and the hot player don’t have the same matchmaking. At the same rank. Because the system is trying too hard to make an even match that it has no choice but to sandbag the hot player, or help out the cold player.

Two players, same rank, seeing different teams BECAUSE of their recent play.

That’s what i’d call dynamic matchmaking. Blizz thought this would be cute, and help everyone have fun, and win half their games, and let the PBSR move them up and down the ranks.

It’s failed. It sucks. It’s frustrating. It should be removed.

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Let’s assume this is true, for the sake of this discussion.

Has it actually failed? You are still here playing it years later, right? If achieving player retention and getting consumers HOOKED was their MO, I think they’ve done a swell job.

Of the countless games you played, how many did you effortlessly sweep the enemy while retaining all the golds, highest stats, etc.? Surely you can’t have been made to mule the team and lose in most of your games? Else you prob wouldn’t play for as long as you have.

I think you’re addicted, and it might be a good thing for you to look into this.

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Make up your mind dude. If bad player is matched in same team with the hot player, they do have same matchmaking.

Rigged system would place good players vs bad players so good can climb fasters. But that is not happening, matchmaker doesnt really discriminate anyone.

You will not be placed as good player with worse players on purpose. I had many games on smurf with above average stats but suddendly having bad game but my team carried me because enemy team was bad. Games are created around your mmr. You can be the highest person but easily lowest too. It is random.

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Matchmaking system is working very well for those who are better than their current rank. I climbed to where I belong many times.

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Blockquote Matchmaking system is working very well for those who are better than their current rank. I climbed to where I belong many times. > Blockquote

Is this purely solo queue, in group, or a mixed bag? I personally think that might matter at this point in the game’s health. I have been working on DPS this season and it has been an awful experience. The journey has been so bad that I am honestly considering retiring from the role because it seems like whenever I pick up DPS, the games are flat out awful in competitive. I am working on self assessing and making note of silly / dumb things that I do in each game. I have started to spend time with VOD review. Regardless of the exercises, I can’t help but feel that every time I queue competitive, it’s as if I am taking a gamble, but the gamble is 90% against my favor as opposed to 50%, or whatever % is deemed “fair” by the community.

I honestly have no clue what my “true” rank is, I’m not even sure if I care. I’m just trying to play the game from the perspective of a player that is always trying to improve. The problem is that it becomes really disheartening when the majority of competitive matches are heartbreaking losses… In these cases, I don’t think matchmaking works well for people in any rank.

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Mixed bag really. I mostly climbed solo with multiple heroes on all roles. I am lone Wolf. But I climbed many times in groups too. I just prefer solo.

What is your rank? Honestly the lower you go, the more your skill can affect your climbing. Nvm I see, low gold to low plat is your range. Maybe try to find a coach?

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That’s where I get frustrated though… I don’t really believe “The lower you go, the more your skill can affect your climbing.” I’m a firm believer that you can’t carry in this game since it is at its core a team game, I think of Overwatch as “The team with the worst player loses.” but perhaps this is where I make a critical mistake. Among my friends, it is generally thought that DPS is my main role in the game, but in this season, and some of the more recent ones, DPS seems to be my weakest and most inconsistent role. I don’t understand what has happened to my gameplay. I feel like I have games where I make an impact, where the team fights are shifted in round’s favor, but with other combined variables, the loss still occurs. I am open to coaching, and am certainly interested in finding people to vod review games that I play, but I don’t really know where to start.

Another thing that I’ve noticed about my SR - In old seasons, and before Role Queue, I used to be mid to high plat. When Role Queue took place, my elo dropped significantly lower than before, and the role that took the biggest hit was DPS, and I was extremely baffled by this considering it was my most played role.

But then again, perhaps I am the “worst player with the team that loses.” because that’s certainly reflected with my current season SR gains.

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And yet that is exactly the case. Thats why smurfs can dominate and hard carry lower ranked games anfmd you can get huge PBSR there too. Which is not possible in diamond+. System is trying to help those who are better than others below diamond.

Maybe it is you who cant carry. I can show you many games I carried.

That is often not the case. I have win games with objective worse players than enemy team. But we had better coms and team play or hero choices decided outcome.

Main role is tank and tank hero choice can decide majority of games, not the dps.

Just start a topic and ask for game review/coaching. Nicely and add some informations about your issues/play time/heroes you play. Just anything what can help to understand why you are not climbing. Oh and replay code of course with comp match, preferably close loss.

You can do it here on forums or you can join our forum discord and ask there and I will look at it.

discord.gg/tUCspvw

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Thank you, I may check the discord out. I am looking to improve, but I truly do not understand how at this point.

The last thing I want to mention is that the majority of comp games this season I’ve played, solo queue or group, have had a complete and utter lack of voice comms. This feels remarkbly different compared to previous comp seasons I’ve played in the past. I am talking COMPLETE radio silence from my team for the entirety of the match. (If I am in group, we comm among each other in there) but team chat: silent.

Then in the cases that there are comms, the comms provided rarely feel useful. More often than not, they invoke toxicity or frustration among my teammates. You know, the typical accusational callout that grinds everyone’s gears.

I am guessing that has something to do with my elo… but I guess I should learn to carry so none of that matters.

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No. The hot player has worse matchmaking. He’s forced to play with the cold player. The cold player won the lottery, and gets to play an “even match” with better players. In reality, it should be random. The hot player would have no penalty at all for playing well. The cold player would not be rewarded for playing bad. The system REACTING to your recent play means that your play determines your matchmaking. If all of that was turned off, both players would simply receive a random match next time. The hot player, randomly, might get a decent team and just win and rank up some more. Instead, he’s forced to try and carry someone… for the sake of making that one single stupid match “fair.”

So the hot player loses. Couldn’t carry the worse player. That bad player was put on the team by the matchmaker on purpose. If it were random, the hot player probably wouldn’t have had to endure that crap match and could have went on to win another game. This is what feels like “forced losses.”

It’s not the same matchmaking. Doing well earns you Hard Mode. Doing bad earns you Easy Mode. Two different “difficulties” of matchmaking, depending on your latest play.

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Ok how smurfs climb then? Because they are hot players having above average performance.

Sorry but stuff you say is not reality as I played many times as hot player and didnt have cold players more then when I wasnt hot :slight_smile:

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No, doing well above average for your elo consistently makes you climb. If you are not climbing, you are not playing as well as you think. This is your main issue dude, you think that you play better but it is not reality just because you think that.

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Not really it’s the same everywhere. Sometimes you will get people that comms that are dither good or bad at it and sometimes you get none. That’s mostly the only real random factor in a game.

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On this account I placed really poorly in gold(2100). I only solo queue and mercy1trick. My stats are much better than mercy at my rank. I have a 61% win percentage.

If I was getting sandbagged with bad players by matchmaker for popping off I would not be able to maintain this win percentage on such a team dependent hero.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

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Smurfs climb because they can brute force through the MMR. Many players cannot, even if they perform above the players at their own SR. Find me someone who’s a 4 season plat player that can climb a hardstuck silver account. I’ll bet significant amounts of money they can’t

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