Why everyone hates Echo?

Depends from who it says.

I haven’t seen alot of complaining regarding this topic.
Whilst it might seem unappealing to you it might seem appealing to you.

I understand how it can be disliked, though i think we should decide whether or not if the majority of the community enjoys this.

Pretty much the whole OW community, including DPS mains, agreed that we need more supports and tanks rather than a DPS.
And there was A LOT of complaining when Echo was announced to be a DPS. It just has died down because it’s no use to complain anyway.

3 Likes

Though this doesn’t say that the entire community was saying it.

Usually i don’t complain about statistics, but about the main quality it gives with it.

Though it depends on how many of the users actually care.

I don’t think this will be changed anymore, they intended this as original design.

A: Everyone expected her with her… nice curves… to be a healer. Myself included.

B: PPL hate that you can be creative with her ult. You cant predict what she will do.
With a reaper, hanzo, mcree. You all know what tactics they might employ.

With echo you cant.
She has 6 options at all times. And various ways to deploy em. Its up to the echo player to make it work. And ppl -HATE- that they cant predict what she will do in some cases.
Will she go for a tank?
A dps and kills?

A “rare” support? pull of a ress? a moira beam?
Baptiste IF field with a quick ult?

they cant fully predict it.

1 Like

The devs literally confirmed that they acknoledge that there are too few supports and tanks last year.

and yeah, of course not the whole community will agree. You will never find a topic that the whole community agrees on.

And as long as supports and tanks are a part of this game, you can’t just treat it as a second class role that will get less attention.
Loosing Tank and Support players will hurt the game in the long run and make it worse for DPS players as well-

It is in a 2/2/2 setup though.
Having 1 of your healer (could be an off healer or something) suddenly swap to another role mid fight is quite… bad for the other support. Now they have to keep 3 tanks or 3 DPS alive all by themselves.

Sure, Echo could turn into a support, but then… what’s the point of swapping to another support when she is one? I know there are situation where that will work out, but there is that feeling of “I should have become something else” if Echo is a support.

Support mains universally accept an evil looking lady as Healer, but reject the idea that a kind looking girl can be a DPS

2 Likes

For me I don’t hate Echo, I just think this game has too much damage throughput to begin with and is more in need of other things, such as CC breakers and a better life for tanks.

In all honesty the game feel more and more unbalanced for every introduction of a new hero. They should instead work more on keeping the power creep in check. I wouldn’t mind if they lowered the damage throughput on tanks, but gave them more utility to work with.

Echo is as per say, OK, though her ultimate is having way too much impact on its own. This to me is one of the big problems of this game, the ultimate abilities emphasise too much on solo play, Echo’s included. So I think that the game has too many issues in the balance department that should be sorted out before they introduce new heroes to the game, regardless of what hero type that is.

1- People wanted a Support or Tank for Hero 32, not a DPS, of which we already have more than the other two roles combined
1b- as a follow on to the above, adding another DPS hurt queue times and more people seek to play DPS
1c- Yes, people expected her specifically to be a Support. Despite gaslighting from the community, it was pretty plain she was designed as a Support. The developers even indicated she was originally a Support. So, when people were duped because the developers decided (wrongly, IMO) that her Ultimate couldn’t work for a Support, they were understandably upset.
2- Flying tank buster. There’s no way that was going to be received well. This also aggravates issue 1b since fewer tank players further bottlenecks queues
3- She overshadows several DPS heroes such as Pharah and Symmetra that people have long been campaigning for Blizzard to change so they can be viable
4- Too strong, mostly her ult. It can generate massive rewards with very little risk compared to most other ultimates–other ultimates with such skewed risk/reward ratios are typically defensive or have relatively low power to begin with, whereas Duplicate can be inanely powerful.
5- She directly flies in the face of efforts to tone down power creep, which is especially frustrating for Tanks and Supports since they’ve felt the brunt of these changes while DPS have gotten relatively few (or even have been taken the opposite direction)

Overall, she’s a character of bad taste and tone deafness from the developers. The community, largely, was asking for more supports and tanks, of which the developers have acknowledged there aren’t enough. So what do they do? They release a DPS. The tank community has voiced long-standing frustrations with tank-buster heroes who have one-sided matchups with tanks. So what does Blizzard do? Release a flying tank buster who can operate out of the effective range of most tanks. People upset about DPS queue times–add another DPS.

Adding another Support or Tank would’ve helped alleviate a lot of problems with the game right now. Not solved entirely, but it would’ve helped. Adding a DPS was literally the only “lose” scenario here because it actively makes all of those problems worse, and the developers took it. That is why folks are upset about Echo.

6 Likes

This forum is full of support mains for once, so any DPS (new and old) that remotely threatens them are all disliked.

Players haven’t deal with Pharah for so long, they all forgot about aerial combat, trying to look up, or trying to look away from the tanks hurt their necks, and can’t hit ant shots. Echo maybe serve as a hard wake up call when the game is trying to go back to it’s root of FPS. Sometime cheap tricks and cheese won’t cut it anymore, gotta learn some mechanical skills for once.

That said, maybe the ult is too strong for how versatile it is? Maybe it needs some more fine tune.

I think she was not the hero we needed right now in this state of the game.
Too many DPS players queueing? Add a new DPS hero
Tanks feel less enjoyable? New hero has an ability (focus beam) which when used properly melts tanks.
Problems with heal creep? New hero had sticky bombs which almost require certain healers see extra play time adding for some more imbalance (to be far, this isn’t a big one since they tuned in the bombs).

I think if she would have came later, she might have been more welcomed.

1 Like

Yeah but it’s the exact same problem that now exists when she is DPS. Sure you might say: But swapping to a third healer is value! Only… it isn’t. You usually copy tanks, and for good reason. Very very rarely you copy someone else for a specific ult or utility skill you need in the moment, but that’d be no diffierent than those moments where Sym’s barrier ult prevents far more damage than Echo could heal, or Reinhardts Shield + Shatter provide better protection for your team.

That’s what I mean: Yeah on paper that reason makes sense. And then it doesn’t, because despite what many non-DPS - me included, granted - like to say, DPS is no less necessary than anyone else. Tanks can more readily turn the tide of combat, yes. But we see that, exactly in how you virtually always want to copy tanks.

We absolutely didnt not need another flying hero. Especially one that is very silent, has the best mobility in the dps catagory, and has a burst that can delete a tank in 1.5 seconds.

We don’t have a tank that actually contests flying hero’s well enough. D.Va is not suited for being able to consistently contest Echo.

As a tank trying to hold and take ground agaisnt a target that can literally be anywhere that also is a tank buster is a huge mistake.

Pharah’s flying is limited and she only has two sources of damage that are fair agaisnt a tank.

Sombra can be anywhere but she has only one source of damage and has to be in range to do anything meaning a lot of risk and downtime

Echo can play at any range, has 4+ sources of damage, and extremely low CD mobility.

I maybe copy (second or third) this from someone below but… I want to give my thoughts too:

  1. She should be a Support, from her backstory over to her design, she is a Support, also we need more versatility in the Tank and Support roles.
    ATM we have 1 Support (Ana) who are Meta for about half of a year and basically untouched, 1 Support who is Meta since GOATS Comp (Lucio) and still is played like in 70% of the games in high ranks. 2 Supports where Ppl allways complain about, 1 Support who needs just so much protection from teammates to be some kind of good and 1 Support where Ppl just straight out say that you are throwing. And thats it. Same goes for tanks tbh (2 Meta, 2 who get complained by a lot, 2 who no one knows below Masters how to actually play together with these tanks and 2 who ppl say you are hard throwing), while DPS have such a gigantic roster to pick from. Of course not all are viable and some of them are better than others, BUT no one complains if you take a Hanzo instead of a Widowmaker or McCree and Symmetra and Pharah where allways good on certain maps.
    It also wasnt helping that the Devs actually sad, they planned her as a Support, but screw it and made her a DPS because of her Ultimate.

  2. Long DPS Q? We make them even longer by adding a new DPS hero! YAY!

  3. Tank-Busting: Least enjoyable role and as a tank you can’t do sht against Echo and even IF you can, you just f** up your team, because Echo is going to copy you and kills your team.

  4. Her Kit is just overpowered. Flying, high mobility, high dmg-output and an extremly strong ultimate.

  5. Power Creep: Pharah is now completly useless and overshadowed by Echo, because everything that Pharah can do, Echo is just better in it (Excpet the Part of dying in her ultiamte, Echo dosnt die in her ultimate, so Pharah is better in dying durring her ultimate)

  6. Just completly ignoring the community: Blizzard does this since a long time tbh, every content-creator was saying: They better not release another DPS, its unhealty, everyone on reddit or in the forum was saying: Pls, dont add another DPS, its unhealthy. And Blizzard just drops this bomb and now is suprised by the sh*tstorm.

I’ve already said this - I know! I’ve been playing this game regularly since January 2017, and even back in the day, Sym operated like a DPS. The Shield Generator didn’t make her a Support.

In Overwatch, I think it’s been made rather clear that Support = Healer. Symmetra has never healed.

Honestly, it’s as if Tracer, Mei and D.Va just…don’t exist.

1 Like

Support dosn’t mean necessary healer. Because of that its called “Support” and not “Healer”. And yeah, yeah… I understand that Supports should give healing. Symmetra 1.0 was an actual Support, by just pressing E and give their teammates overshields. And yes, I also know this was a diffrent time. Sym 2.0 was pushing way more into the DPS slot, ok. She still was in the Support roster, because of reasons and she got a secondary Ultimate (first she had only the teleporter as Ultimate, she Shield Gen came with the 2.0 rework) and I completly understand why they changed her, because when she had the Shield Gen the game was like a mini-gameshow of “Protect the Shield-Generator” vs. “Search and Destroy the Shield-Generator”. And yeah, that was unhealty.
BUT no one had complain if Symmetra 3.0 would have actually worked as a healing Support, by giving maybe overshields by button press and also grant a good amount of healing as secondary benefit. She would have keep her Teleport as a situational and position-depanding Ultimate and she would have made finally a decent Support, BUT Blizzard was like: We lack to much DPS heroes, just rework Symmetra into a completly lackluster one, who only knows the extrem of completly broken or completly garbage, nothing in between.

…I’m talking about Overwatch’s definition of Support. As I said here:

In Overwatch.

Does that make the old Torbjorn a Support in your eyes…? How about Soldier, considering he actually heals? Also “because of reasons” isn’t a great point to make… :point_up: :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I’d complain…If Symmetra could also heal, she would be way too powerful. She already has a ridiculous amount of DPS, the turrets, the teleporter, and that massive shield as an ultimate. Healing on top of that would be very difficult to balance.

Even if the teleporter became an ultimate, that wouldn’t make her a “decent Support”. As Overwatch is now, a mere teleporter is a poor excuse for an ultimate.

It had nothing to do with the DPS roster, and everything to do with her kit. The old Sym was way too powerful on defence maps and needed to be changed, and as the team was cleaning up their game a little bit at that time, she was relocated to DPS…where she should have been the entire time.

I only hate Echo because she is a complete Pharah replacement. Everything Pharah can do, Echo can do better.

Everything that could have fixed Pharah was given to Echo: omnidirectional flight, multiple damage abilities, bigger ammo clip, slimmer hitbox.

In fact, Echo is actually better at Barrage than Pharah, because Echo cannot be killed while casting it.

  1. Sym 2.0 was (like I said) a DPS, Sym 1.0 was a support, but the devs changed her more to a not needed DPS instead of needed Support

  2. If they had reworked Sym 3.0 into a Support they pbviously had changed other things than they did to add her as DPS. This should be clear. Lower m1 dmg, turrets more for protection and the slow-down effect than actually killing, old teleport as Ultimate, E for healing/shields. Stuff like that

That’s their fault for just assuming she was a support. There were no clues in the Reunion cinematic that she would be a support​:skull::skull::skull: