What’s wrong with Baptiste doing a solid amount of primary fire damage?
It requires tracking skills. Alternating between grenade and primary fire without delay takes good flicking as well so I don’t get it.
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Because of the nonsence way people think of this game and how things work.
If you bring up the fact that Moira was pretty mediocre/ trash before 2-2-2 people will say “Oh well she was too good for forced 2-2-2 and nerfed because of it!” (Even though Ladder meta has been 2-2-2 most common for a long time but whatever)
Yet in the reverse for Baptiste. “If it wasn’t for forced 2-2-2 you would never see DPS because of Baptiste’s kit!”
So rather than looking at Baptiste vs. the other supports, and Soldier vs. the other DPS; for some reason people are looking at them against one another, even though if I pick Soldier, there’s literally nothing stopping you from picking Baptiste.
Does Soldier need buffs/ tweaks? Yes of course. More ammo, reload while sprinting, lower CD on Rockets, SOMETHING.
But to say that Baptiste is overpowered, or too strong for a support, while ignoring the fact that Zenyatta has more damage done and final blows than plenty of DPS, is kind of weird.
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Oh no Bap does about as much DPS as the worst DPS in the game…
I wonder if they’re afraid to buff soldier or just don’t care about the current state of the game.
But despite having similar damage, soldier and bap has similar mobility, one vertical the other horizontally (cases could be made for either to be better). Bap has equal too or better surviability than Soldier, meanwhile allowing for teamwide utility and main healer aoe healing output. His ult is def as utilitywise good as soldiers aimbot is damagewise. So all in all, it just makes no sense, why baptiste was able to get that kind of damage output and they made it easier and more reliable too. Meaning Baptistes max DPS output is far less limited, because of the lack of bloom.
if we’re gonna demand changes by looking at damage heroes’ weapons in isolation, this whole soldier vs baptiste spiel can just sit down, because all your comparisons pale in comparison to when you compare them with symmetra’s short, winston-tier-starting (realistically lower) dps, long charge time and highly situational weapon.
so unless y’all willing to do this for sym’s weapon which is the worst (if not one of the worst) of all the damage heroes, pipe down and stop being hysterically hypocritical.
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This. Just look at the clickbait title. Only misses some red circles and arrows on the thumbnail.
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It’s being compared in a vacuum because half of their kit doesn’t need much comparison because it’s all extremely similar. Bap is basically a Support Soldier now. He’s not his own thing anymore; he’s now just a Soldier variant.
so going back to what others have said:
- yet ignoring that bap needs to heal the team?
- ignoring that heal targets are often not going to line up well with enemies to spam left and right click together?
- ignoring maybe that bap isn’t actually reloading less because he needs to reload heal shots?
seems like pretty significant things to ignore…
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I suppose we need to nerf Bastion then.
You can use any example you want dude, what you can not do is getting your math wrong. I dont know where you get that Soldier reloads faster than baptiste, its literally false.
You can see this in game or in 15 seconds of google search 
Then again, you bring, again, a practical ingame example when I have been 100% clear I am talking about raw DPS. You keep trying to talk about oranges to tell me I am wrong about apples. Quite pointless.
You are out of your depth, we are done here.
He was doing the same dmg since his release… He only can shoot further away, that’s all the buff he got. His dmg numbers didn’t get a buff… just saying.
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The current live patch got his primary fire reduced by 0.9 seconds. Even gamepedia shows his primary fire used to be 0.65 per burst and is now 0.56 per burst. He lost 0.9 seconds between each burst which goes and upticks his sustained DPS big time.
IMO what makes it fine with Baptiste is that he should be a healing more than damaging making his DPS numbers lower as he has no way to damage and heal at the same time apart from relying upon 2 massive cooldown abilities.
I think you are bad at math, i’M sorry. xd Primary fire used to be 0.65/ burst and now 0.56/burst. That means he lost 0.09 seconds between bursts and not 0.9 
I don’t think that just beacuse he can fire by 0.09 sec faster would make him OP… His dmg/ bullet was always the same since his release and now he only got these buffs:
Baptiste
Biotic Launcher
- Recovery decreased from 0.45 to 0.36 seconds
- Random spread removed
- Damage falloff range now begins at 25 meters, up from 20
They didn’t buff his dmg/ bullet, he has the same dmg as he used to, he can only shoot 5 meter further… Woow huge buff… Jeff said in his releasing video that he is a DPS-Support hybrid and he could only do dmg to close and close-mid range…
Plus he cannot always do dmg since he has to focus on healing, he has barely any time to do dmg since he has to shoot his teammates…
Just to compare:
-Ana can do 70 dmg / shot without any dmg falloff on long range, and she has to hit one bullet to do it. Baptiste has to hit all 3 bullets of his and he would still do only 75 dmg on close- mid range only…
-Zen does 48 dmg / ball, and he can shoot 2,5 balls / sec. which means he can do 122 dmg / sec with only bodyshots…
- One Lucio soundwave deals 20 dmg, and he can shoot 4, so he can do 80 dmg / sec
But yeah Baptiste is OP cuz he can shoot 5 meter further away…
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Soldier has rockets…
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Because Baptiste is a healer & he isn’t shooting 100% of the time like Soldier is. If his damage wasn’t DPS-esque he’d be irrelevant.
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A lot of people ask silly questions like that. Fact is in good players hands he does significantly more than most other options.
A GM Baptiste will impact a game vastly more than a GM McCree, Reaper etc.
And you can get into the age old argument of balancing for the top vs balancing for the average guy, but quite frankly Brig, Moira, Orisa, Sigma introductions and buffs leading to GOATs and double shield etc, have proven balancing for the lower ranks breaks the game. Balance should always be focused on the top.
Just because bad players are bad on the hero, doesn’t mean he is bad himself. Using poor players statistics to justify his potential influence is redundant.
Widow is awful at most ranks, yet still plenty call for nerfs to her despite the fact she is average even at the top.
ApplYou realise burden of proof is on you not me. But sense your have no leg to stand on let me do the math for you.
Raw dps for 76 is 10k maximum thats with all headshots in range over 1 minute. Baptiste caps out at 3k maximum all headshots in range over 1 minute. this is only left click damage no subabilities to go by.
Hhmm maybe you are out of your depth?
You realise there is a video out there that literally proves everything you said is wrong right? Do your research buddy and specially check your math.
Dont bring HS to the table because those rely on accuracy and soldier has SPREAD and Baptiste does not. In order to get that 100% accuracy soldier has to shoot slower so yeah, good try to skew the test but it doesnt fly. It just doesnt.
Raw DPS counts X hitting a target, not getting Max value via Headshots, thats why Raw DPS works with Beams, Projectiles and Hitscans.
Yeah you are 100% out of your depth. Bye.
Moira was literally under Zen’s pickrates in GM until the Sigma patch. She went from sub 1% to 15% because of Sigma’s release. She was average middle of the road before Sigma; literally Ana still had 2x the pickrate of Moira in Plat with the same winrate before Sigma.
Brig was used less the higher you went before her soft rework. She has almost always had a stupid high winrate despite seeing very little play outside of the rare Goats usage on Ladder and OWL of course. Heck the rework made her more attractive to use at the top, and less at the bottom.
Plus the OG Goats came about because of Double Sniper being meta, the team not having a strong Widowmaker player, and stacking tanks/ supports to stay alive. It just turned out it was better against pretty much everything else as well.
Grandmasters is the ONLY rank where Baptiste beats any DPS/ Moira in terms of damage done. He still has horrible final blows/ solo kills.
Widow is far from awful past like Plat where she’s pretty average and only gets better from there?
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His ult would be the last thing to touch because I would also think about the players on consoles. And a buff on his ult might cause problems on consoles because of his auto aim.
What soldier 76 needs is his weapon spread removed and at least an increase of 5 ammo.
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