Why do people complain about the game being team reliant?

[Krak-11516]

People want to not worry about anything and just kill stuff.

[Nattapong-11655]

@Zephrin-11143

there’s a difference between dependence and synergy.

@Zephrin-11143

Why “But this is a team game. Just depend on your team” doesn’t cut it.

A hero requiring a team pocket to simply have an opportunity to do their job isn’t a healthy notion especially when:

• players are rewarded individually
• most players single queue (can only duo in GM+ anyways)
• not every player will have compatible hero pools or even compatible skills to enable you that opportunity

i.e. locking a hero’s opportunity to contribute meaningfully behind your teammates actively going out of their way to play in a specific manner to your will not only isn’t fun, but is making rng matchmaker too much of a factor in success rather than the player’s input whilst playing said hero. This is pretty much the same reason why supports and tanks have damage/self defence capabilities too rather than being absolutely completely reliant on the rest of their team to peel/damage.

rewarding synergy and working together is fine. but having your capability to do you job as a hero hard gatekept by a teammate’s input is a big practicality issue.

take ashe + mercy synergy. they work well together and reward working together well. but neither are absolutely dependent on each other for them to function.
i.e. you as ashe don’t need a mercy to play specifically to your needs in order to be able to shoot someone or to be able to kill. likewise mercy doesn’t really need ashe to play in a really specific way to let mercy heal her teammates.

Jeff has literally said him and the team have done everything from the beginning to force team work as much as possible. This is the most “team” team game in the world. And Jeff is now saying he thinks the game would be better if it became a bit more individualistic.

You say ashe doesn’t need a mercy, but dafran never plays ashe without a mercy pocket. This game is tooooo team reliant.

[dag-12162]

You just can’t have your own playstyle anymore. All dps are played the same, all healers are played the same. Tanks are varied but shields play all the same.
The game becoming team relient has made positioning the most linear its ever been.
You can’t flank, you can barely stand playing aggressively because the other team is playing the same clump style as your team. So you concede and just stand behind your tanks with your team.
You have no individual playstyle as any role.
Remember admiring people’s playstyles? When there were flanker tracers, or protective tracers. When mccree could either be defensive or offensive. When mercy could either play with her team or be aggressive with a flanker dps.
But now everyone plays the same because they HAVE to.
You flank you die.
So stand with your team or lose
Fun

[Krak-11516]

This is the most “team” team game in the world.

Honestly I feel Destiny requires more teamwork than Overwatch.

[NYMufasa-1229]

CSGO is very team dependent. What people really want is to not lose all hope the moment you realize someone on your team is an idiot.

Did you read my Diary!?!?

It’s too team reliant is the issue. Get just one thrower and you lose the match and 45 minutes.

Seriously, I have to find a better hiding place!!!

Probably because almost nobody works as a team and the matchmaking puts you with potatos?

Grrrr…

Because while you’re supposed to rely on your teammates, the fact that having a single low tier players amongst 11 high tier players means that the one team with that low tier player will almost automatically be losers despite their averages being around the same level is just ridiculous.

Wrote this on page 3…

What isn’t fine is when you have heroes who heroes who need extreme teamwork and well,babysitting basically in order to work,whereas most others are more self-sufficient.

You’re talking about Bastion and justice in the sky right?

then some characters are designed as lone wolfs who don’t even care what happens to their team because they can destroy the enemy team by themselves.

You’re talking about Widow, Tracer, Reaper, Hanzo, and pretty much most of the flankers and brawlers right?

The game is (and should be) 100% team reliant as it’s a TEAM BASED shooter.
Teamwork is the #1 most important thing in this game.

Except not every player agrees with that, and that’s the problem with the teamwork in this game.

Because everyone wants to be the superstar of the team who shows up in the highlight reels.

Are you talking about “flanking Deadeye Cree” and “I’m the enemies teams face Death Blossom Reaper”?

[Winterburn-11543]

I don’t think it’s necessarily an issue of the game itself being team reliant as opposed to those games you get into where the enemy team acts as one well oiled machine against your team of… monkeys?

[dag-12162]

Team work doesn’t end in linear playstyles, so what happened?
Jeff wants this to be a team game and that has always been the case, and team work isn’t what made this game the linear experience it’s turned into today. Powerful burst healing encourages you not to flank them. Tanks with overloaded kits encourages the same thing since they have a button for every situation.
Dps have stayed the same, its the healers being too strong and the tanks having too many options that have changed the overall game.

[Nattapong-11655]

I don’t think it’s necessarily an issue of the game itself being team reliant as opposed to those games you get into where the enemy team acts as one well oiled machine against your team of… monkeys?

If the game wasn’t too team reliant your team acting like monkeys wouldn’t matter.

Honestly I feel Destiny requires more teamwork than Overwatch.

Never played it. I’ve played league though, and it never made me feel as completely helpless as overwatch does. I don’t even win or lose games. I literally got to gold by just sitting behind a shield shooting the enemy shield. I just sit there, and shoot the shield. When I flank, I die instantly. So I just shoot the shield. And sometimes my team walks over them, sometimes we get walked over. It’s completely what my team and the other team is doing. I’m barely doing anything.

[xx9-1969]

People think this game was meant to be CS:GO when it’s clearly meant to be more like TF2.

That much has been apparent from the beginning, to the point where people were calling this game TF3 when it was first announced and the devs said they were influenced by TF2.

Of course, that doesn’t mean things can’t change if the market demands it but it does explain a whole heap of the original design choices in this game.

[Sylhiri-1495]

It really doesn’t help when 2/3 roles are team dependent and the largest amount of people are in the independent role.

[Krak-11516]

Destiny is a little different. Basically you need at least 2 or 5 others with you to do normal content.

The biggest one being Raids like the Leviathan, which requires perfect group coordination.

[aba1-1220]

So if you are in the top 1% of players you can carry but what happens if you are a plat player in silver or a diamond player in gold. Good luck you better get lucky.

Me and my wife both smurfed and jumped from low gold dipping to silver to high plat touching diamond.

[Nattapong-11655]

This game is not “too team reliant”, GM streamers are doing “unranked to gm” challenges everyday and they always get to GM. If you’re good, you will climb, if you are stuck in some rank is because that’s your rank.

In kabajis unranked to gm series, his first game he got around 80 kills in like plat, and it was so hard for him that he actually had to get into voice com to start teaching his teammates how to play.

[ConnieAmore-1171]

BECAUSE IT PREVENTS YOU FROM CARRYING IF YOU HAVE BAD TEAM MATES

[Tzeneth-1699]

Another aspect to this game is that there are a lot of maps and certain heroes tend to be preferred on those maps. So, a person’s SR reflects, on average, their skill. The key aspect there is average. There may be maps they suck at or heroes they’re forced to play because they got paired with someone who can’t take the other half of their role. Which may explain another reason why DPS has a longer queue. DPS isn’t really hard subdivided, you can be fine with two hitscans or two projectile heroes. You usually aren’t going to do as well without at least one shield tank and lo betide and team that ends up with players who play off-healers when you need more raw heal for your composition.

All of this means that you can be screwed regardless of SR and feel like your team mate isn’t doing their team based job, which leads to toxicity and all of those consequences.

[Patroclus-21714]

Yeah,I meant heroes like Bastion,Pharah,Sombra and Symmetra.

Poor Bastion needs a rework. I’ve seen suggestions of turning him into a tank a while ago. It seemed pretty good.
As we’ve seen,Sombra only works in pro play,but not well and is pretty much trash for everyone else.
Pharah and Symmetra need HARD pocketing,not to mention Sym’s kit being clunky and weak in general due to nerfed turrets and infinite TP.

[Cleopatra-21937]

People think this game was meant to be CS:GO when it’s clearly meant to be more like TF2.

Except TF2 has multiple things, that made it less team-reliant.

Such as:

• larger teams, reducing requirements to players. You can have majority of teammates mess around and still succeed;
• stronger defense. Both attacking and defending team have defense as second frontline, so total failure of attacking group doesn’t make frontline crumble;
• no class limits. If someone is bad Pyro/Engineer/Medic, anyone else can pick them to help;
• multiple choices of weapons, that allows to stay on your favorite class, while still adapting to situation;
• votekick/ban systems, that allow players to remove undesirable elements right on the spot, either via voting or server admin’s action;
• teamwork, that is actually “teamwork”, with support roles like Engineer/Medic being truly important for team. They are equal with Soldier/Demoman - if you position your sentry properly, it can’t be destroyed in solo.