Why do matches feel so unbalanced?

Ok, let us put all the trolls, smurfs and throwers aside.

There are matches played by normal players who are naturally at the same skill level.

Every now and then even the worst matchmaker manages to provide a theoretically even match.

Still, Overwatch sometimes tends to make you feel like you’re banging your head against an impregnable wall.

You can see that the opponents are not necessarily better and your own team is not necessarily worse, but small decisions quickly result in a snowball effect, which often makes real comebacks in the game difficult.

Yes, I know that teamwork is the key to victory, but sometimes it isn’t.

If the first team starts with a solid line-up and the second team contrasts it with a worse or more experimental set-up, the first two team fights are decided by pure luck and individual skill. Otherwise you can already say that the first team automatically has an advantage.

And this advantage is often so far ahead that from the second fight at the latest, the corresponding Ults are available for Team 1 in order to extend the lead even further.

What are the options for Team 2?

They can

a) Develop a strategy to break through the defense

b) wait and bait for their own ults to knock everyone out at once

c) Punish the mistakes of the other team (e.g. overextending or positioning errors)

d) wildly switch to theoretical “counters”, while losing ult progress and more or less starting from scratch

However, all three options require either communication, coordination, accurate game sense or very good individual mechanical skills.

And in the middle ranks there is seldom anyone experienced enough or has the ability to make good callouts. Especially if you have joined via solo queue.

It is often the case that a team then uses the same route and the same non-working “strategy” over and over again until the match is over. Playing in middle ranks is basically about smashing ults randomly against the enemy in hopes of getting 1-2 kills. The most common mistakes here are:

  • Staggering
  • Solo-Ulting
  • Feeding
  • No common target/focus
  • No peels

Typical scenario is tanks play dive or only off-tanks, while DPS and support play more stationary or mid/long range. Or the team doesn’t really know how to execute a correct dive tactic. Or the team has trouble COUNTERING diving DPS and tanks, that make repeatedly valuable picks. Also a standard situation is a tank making a picknick at the choke or going in alone, breaking every line of sight for heals, also snipers against double shields… you get it.

Ironically, it is then often up to individual, attentive, but also skilled individuals to turn things around with a hardcarry. But that doesn’t always work reliably and depends heavily on whether you have the potential to carry with your main, or whether you have a hard counter on the opposing team.

Once you get to that point, the match is just frustrating because there is no discernible chance of making a difference as an individual, if you don’t have an IQ 1000+ moment. Not everyone masters all heroes equally well in order to provide the right answer to every situation. I have, for example, only two DPS heroes I feel really comfortable with. Every other DPS is quite unreliable for me and only works with a bit of luck. If my first two heroes get shut down, my contribution is heavily weakened. Hoping for some “enabling” from the team is wasted energy in middle ranks.

How did you handle these situation? What is your individual strategy if you run into such a “wall” and your team does not harmonize or even work together?

I know that if winning and losing balances out, you are at your proper skill level, but it doesn’t improve the user experience. It always feels like stomping or being stomped.

// TLDR: Even without smurfs and throwers the game gets very one-sided by design, thanks to snowball effects and extremely powerful synergies. If you are on the losing side, the team typically doesn’t use any synergies at all. How can you outplay that disadvantage?

1 Like

What blizzard considers balanced matches is actually far from it. They create matches to be as close to 50% chance to win as possible. They do it by putting people of varying skill levels on one team instead of naturally letting the ladder sort itself. As a result there is no standard teamplay/skillsets in ranks, its just chaos.

11 Likes

In QP, my experience is that 4 out of 5 games is a slaughter, one way or another. And I say that from being on both sides of that coin.

I have lost count of the number of games where I got gold elims with 1 elimination. It hardly seems possible, but there is something terribly, terribly broken with the MMR for that to happen 80% of the time.

In role based play, there is not really anything you can do about it. Occasionally I wait the 20-30 minutes needed for a game of QP classic, and it’s amazing how much more tactical variability and flexibility you have when you can change to whatever is needed to break a deadlock, or bring more firepower to the game. Sometimes 6 DPS is EXACTLY what you need.

As for role based QP, the only thing you can do is turn off chat Ctrl-Shift-C, turn voice chat volume to zero, then choose the fastest hero in your class and get behind the enemy team and harass their healers the remainder of the game until they rage quit. First you frag them, then you spawncamp them. Your fellow team mates will rage at you, but with all comms on silent, you won’t hear a thing, but you will probably get reported.

1 Like

This: if your unlucky to get double mmr tanks and the enemy team gets high mmr tanks, it’s a poop show. You get that “what’s going on here?”

Combine team average mmr, fast pass flex queue so people don’t give 2 hoots… low player base, weird times zones. Then yea your going to get some bad teams mix ups.

Yes. And at some point you have to call it and say “ok time for a new ladder - a full and total reset”.

A reset is fresh incentivization. It will rejuvinate the ranks and provide relevant conent. It will give content creators a bunch of cringe clickbait titles like “how to escape elo hell” - something that apparently can’t exist on live. A reset refreshes the epoch, erases bad data, and cleans up the signal/noise.

There is no way a full reset is more elo hell than what currently exists. It’s 15 matches to sort people to within 300sr of where they belong (or, should at least reseed their progress). And it takes almost no effort (dev resources) to pull off.

Why can’t they just do it already.

I don’t’ think they can’t do it. If they do it, there’s no going back. I think they should do an experimental hard reset. Make a 2nd set of comp, for a ‘full reset’ of the ranks, where everyone starts at the same exact rank and see what happens. If it’s a success, then scrap the old comp carry over system, and implement a reset system. If it’s a failure, scrap the reset comp, and act like it never happened.

I would say these make up 65-70% of the games.

More often than you think actually.

Definitely been there before.

Again, I would say this makes up for 65-70% of the matches

Yes this is correct… Like, your Rien chooses to fire-strike and hasn’t noticed that the enemy Rien is playing a lot more aggro and looking to shatter.

Or your Mercy decides to go in for a rez but hasn’t accounted for the fact that Cree flashed 7 seconds ago.

The classic DPS Moira who doesn’t throw support orbs, only damage orbs.

Yes indeed…

This is the “CARRY” factor…

I don’t agree… There’s a META for every elo. At some point META becomes pretty well defined. The higher you climb, it gets more map dependent. You’re not going to run Rien into double shield on Havana.

Edit: Well you can, but have fun giving up your SR… :slight_smile:

My bad, I missed this. Experimental comps only win if your DPS manage to get an early pick. Which definitely happens!! But sometimes hero interactions/synergies combined with

can overcome being down a man. Definitely not always though…

Everything so far sounds like Defense on Volskya :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:

Honestly the counter swap is worth the loss in ult charge 99/100 times… You’re going to get more value (almost instantly) off of a hero counter, than you will playing a hero into its counter (or soft counter). That’s literally how the game is designed.

Silver/Gold/Platinum?

Well with all the complaints of smurfs these days, there’s sure to be someone… :rofl:

Well, you know what they say about the definition of insanity… :sweat_smile:

Yes… The… “Carry Factor” as previously mentioned… This is your opportunity to shine!! Carry the game!! Get that 25-30 SR Boost!! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

From my experience, you have about a solid 1.5 minutes to make your initial hero selection gain value. Leaving you with an additional 1.5 minutes to gain value on your next selection.

However, my experience from climbing is, its not unusual to just run back to spawn and swap heroes immediately after the enemy team comp is revealed. You have a higher chance of winning the game if you swap early and often. Don’t let the enemy problem become a catastrophe.

You need to diversify your hero pool then… Having at least 4 DPS heroes you’re comfortable on is a pretty solid expectation for climbing… Its fine to have a “main hero,” but having a diverse hero portfolio allows you to be more flexible in stopping the enemy team (as you know).

There’s always a bit of a “luck” factor in gameplay. Even for me. (not trying to flex), I would say I’m capable of playing any DPS hero to approximately 2.8-3k SR (simply based on game knowledge and having seen what other people do). When I get into my own rank, I can provide enough value to be “helpful” but FAR from carrying.

Hero swaps. When you’re in scrims, there are only two DPS types. Hitscan and Flex. When you’re solo-queuing on the ladder, there is only ONE category. Flex. If you want to win the game, you need to be capable of playing all the heroes to defeat your enemies.

Pharah, Mei, Cree/Ashe, Reaper, Tracer… That would solve “most” problems. There are other situations where the other DPS come into play but generally they require more experience.

This is why being proficient on multiple heroes is important. Depending on the map, you can do a lot to stop the enemy teams momentum.

Dorado comes to mind as a map that I used to struggle with a little. But then I learned Ashe (controlling high ground and controlling space). The enemy is forced to swap to Monkey or DVa which generally puts them at a disadvantage (depending on the other tank).

A lot of the KOTH maps require a decent either, Cree or Reaper play to help keep your tanks alive. Mei can also be used but if your team isn’t working together at all, sometimes reaper is easier. But Mei wall INSTANTLY halts momentum if you can keep your main tank alive for an extra couple seconds so the supports can heal him.

3 Likes

Ehh… I think its more about people who play more than it is the match making system. I see a lot of people keep saying:

“I wanna play the game the way I want to play the game.”

That’s the completely INCORRECT approach to competitive gaming. That mentality is fine for QP and arcade however…

But if your goal is to climb in SR and you want to play whatever you want, then you’ll need to put significantly more time into certain heroes then you will other ones. And this goes for all roles…

Uhh… The ladder has sorted itself out… Thats why there are people hard stuck in every rank.

The one comment I will make though is, if at 3.5 they decided to only match up/down by 500 SR, I think it would be beneficial to match 3k +/- 750 or so, instead of +/- 1000.

Gold players definitely shouldn’t be in the same game as Diamond players ever. Gold players are too bad and Diamond players require more team synergy than the average player is willing to work with.

Well, what do you expect in Gold (or lower) when your tanks are running Hog/Ball on defense on Eichenwald and the attackers are running Rien/DVa with good spam heroes…? That seems more like a bad player issue than a match making software issue.

Alas… Blame the boogie man if you like… :slight_smile:

2 Likes

what if the matchmaker really works, but the game‘s design is fundamentally flawed and makes imbalanced stomps inevitable? what if „balanced“ matches are actually an error in the matrix and the statistical anomaly?

1 Like

This.

The ranked mode is completely compromised at this point.

In my opinion, these stomps are mostly because of the players, not playing what’s needed, being out skilled by the enemy as a “mirror match.”
Not everybody can play every hero at the same level, this is less on the matchmaker, and more on teams not working together, no synergies, being out skilled, to have an actual balanced team, you would need to find 5 other people and work together with them, get to know how each player plays, like I sub in for a team from Discord every so often, even though we do not play together, we still talk, and get a feeling quickly for how we react together.

Example: I am horrible as Rein/Orisa/D.va, but a teammate plays all 3, while I am far better as Hog/Ball/Sig, and about the same on Zar.

1 Like

This is actually more likely than anything else I’ve seen.

Idk if I’d call it flawed as much as unsuited for teams of random players compared to groups with levels of chemistry and consistency, both in performance and communication.

The big reason why? The big factor that momentum plays in the game. This makes is a lot harder for teams to comeback once a team gets an advantage on either offense or on defense, not just in terms of ultimate charge but also with other factors like trickling and positioning.

2 Likes

Nah the skill level of players of even close together sr is widely varied. In any good MM system this shouldnt happen. You can almost guarantee to face smurfs in a given bracket by simply stating at the highest portion of it.

In theory, identical team compositions should result in a stalemate, if the ranking system actually worked. On a payload map, the attackers have the advantage (moving cover), but it should still be pretty close, coming down to the wire or overtime.

But I’ve been on teams with good comps who got stomped, and I’ve been on teams with equally matched comps who stomped. There is a mechanic at play which I haven’t taken the time to figure out yet (I should probably watch a replay of every match, from every POV). It might just be a Mercy difference, in which case, the idea of a matching algorithm that uses an average ELO is fundamentally flawed, because certain high-elo heroes can act as a force multiple much greater than 1.0

Untrue, as I said above, just because you mirror match, doesn’t mean your team will have the better player for those heroes, not everyone plays McCree, or Rein, or even Mercy, you will get different results from every player, even if they are technically the same rank.

2 Likes

Not to mention it’s assuming that the distribution of ability even within the roles is the same.

Two teams can be even on paper even all playing they’re strongest heroes but the outcome will still be different if the better damage player on one team is on the mccree mirror while the other is on torb. Same with tank. Imagine a tank mirror of Orissa sigma where one team has the better sigma with the other having the better Orissa. Sigma will likely have more leverage than the Orissa. Or an even better example of a more bs comp, if you have a rein and hog mirror having the better rein will usually matter more than having the better hog.

1 Like

Problematic heroes are Ana , Mcree and Rein.

They bring far too much value compared to their peers, especially for skill required comparatively.

Yes, thanks for agreeing with me. The matching system based on rank, and particularly average rank is fundamentally flawed.
Unless there is some kind of social engineering experiment going on to find out
(a) who can adapt to changing circumstances and
(b) who are team players.

If the above is true, then a team group who can do (a) and (b) above should win 95% of their matches, even against higher ranked players.