I’m guessing zen will be getting a further nerf of some point as the health change didn’t make much difference. He is still in most games, just like Ana used to be. Oh the joy for tanks if the meta became zen+ana. Enjoy the queue times on the other roles!
The problem is how she got popular. She didnt popular because of her char design, she only got popular because of her kit being way too strong.
Yet ana has been the only support or only hero that has that level of consistency in all ranks over multiple years. This should have easily triggered red flags all over but the popular streamers/dps players love ana thats why it conviently gets ignored.
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- Why ? Precisely because she’s played a lot, so there is more incentive to keep her viable than there is for… say… Symm.
- “Special treatment” is a strong statement. LW gets a buff too (sorta), and half the roster will be tuned next week.
- It’s not that big of a buff. It increases her survivability against dive and Tracer in particular, but it does not make her nade more impactful, and it will probably not make her a best pick this season either. Lucio is way stronger right now, and Kiri and Bap are stronger too.
You’ve got it backwards. She’s consistently the outright best pick, but rarely just average.
Then why doesn’t baptiste have that high of a pickrate in metal ranks compared to ana? Throughout most of OW2, bap has been in the same tier as ana as well and sometimes above her.
Ana will never be balanced until antiheal is a flat 50%
Skill issue.
You don’t need to play ana to climb. Why do you think there are so many lucio/zen/mercy/moira/zen one tricks in the support roster? You can even see them in high ranks as well.
Now, is some of her kits less healthy for 5v5? Yes. But so are abilities from so many other heroes. A lot of heroes need a rework.
The difference between nade and other support abilities is that regardless of the fact that you don’t have to aim it you can use it to heal yourself or someone else but not both unless they’re 2 feet in front of you or you nade someone your team is focusing. Unlike actual no skill support abilities its the decision making. Like suzu for example. It heals 80, you can heal a teammate and yourself because you can throw it and teleport to someone, it lets you get out of anything for free since it’s immortality and that extends to your entire team. Anyone complaining is just bad and doesn’t want to use the smallest amount of skill in an fps, which if you want that go back to tf2 with the rest of the casuals
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Brig has had the highest winrate of any hero from bronze to gm for 4 seasons to the point that the devs had to come out and make a statement that she was the best preforming support in the game during the first half of season 8 and that even buffing whipshot was a mistake.
Isnt the answer obvious? Bap takes more skill to play than ana across the ranks.
Bap has only been the “same tier” as ana at the top ranks. Everywhere else hes drastically worse due to lack of mechinal skill/teamwork unless you are smurfing/not playing at the right rank.
I guess I’m a highly skilled player then. Since my winrate on bap has always been around 58% throughout OW2. And even in OW1, it was always higher than my ana. On average, my bap always has 7 - 10% higher winrate than my ana.
And I’m in metal rank too (Plat 5/Gold 1). You can check my Overbuff stats for reference.
Bap more skilful than Ana are you tripping?
His AOE self and healing can’t be blocked, eaten, deflected etc. He has a immortality on cooldown, he has much more consistent and less aim intensive AOE burst healing and has constant vertical mobility.
I’d say both ana and bap are on par in skill ceiling, or at the very least, it can be debated which one is higher. I tend to lean on the side of them being equal.
If you have a look at high elo bap player, you can see a lot of mechanics that you don’t typically see in lower elo. You can also headshot too on bap, which further increases skill expression.
Ana on the other hand can’t headshot, which limits her mechanical skill ceiling. Her skill expression mostly comes from her ability usage (sleep dart and nade).
Ana haters likes to claim that sleep dart and nade is “easy” to land and takes zero skill. But that’s only half true. While it’s true that you can sometimes get easy value by yeeting the nade randomly, being able to sleep ulting genji, sigma, sombra, d.va (when she comes out as baby D.va) is not something that’s easy to do. Neither is sleeping blinking/recalling tracer, flying echo/pharah/mercy, etc.
So skill floor wise, it is true that ana’s is lower than baps. But skill ceiling wise, I’d say they are about equal.
Even in TF2 one of the most powerful weapons like the Ambassador is a direct upgrade to the revolver, but it requieres you to have good aim, going for headshots. The L’Etranger gives cloak but still requires you to get hits. Even you have to aim with the grenade launcher cuz otherwise you are just doing nothing as demo.
Ah good old delusional ana players trying to exaggerate the amount of skill needed to play ana at skill floor~average levels.
You can keep lying to yourself that bap takes less skill to play but ingame pickrates over the years suggest otherwise.
It’s obnoxious that Ana seems to get buffs faster than any other hero (Illari being dumpster tier for multiple seasons really hurts when you see a near-instant Ana buff), but I think everyone’s overreacting a little bit. Yes, it’s an Ana buff, but afaik it’s only a buff to using nade defensively to heal herself, which is fine given that A) the meta is very dive heavy right now, and B) Ana using nade on herself (usually) means it’s not anti-ing the tank. These changes just make her a little bit more survivable when she gets jumped, and that’s assuming she didn’t use nade offensively prior.
To be fair, though Ana is very strong due to her utility, she still not only has weaknesses, but she has been directly or indirectly nerfed over the last year.
Ana’s sleep got nerfed against tanks.
Ana’s nade/sleep was already preventable before it landed by many things and had a lot of ways to remove anti if it did land, then they added Kiriko, who could Suzu both nade and sleep when it was about to hit or after it hit.
It went from:
Ok, I have to get my sleep/nade passed shields (Rein, Winston, Sig, Ram), Dva Matrix, Sig Flux, Orisa Spin, Zarya Bubbles, Genji Deflect, Mei wall, and still actually land it and if I did land it (the nade at least), it could be removed by Reaper Wraith, Moira fade, Mei’s Cryo-freeze, Tracer’s recall, Zarya’s Bubble, Orisa’s Gold and now Kirko can cleanse herself and others, who can also teleport herself to also cleanse anti from herself.
That’s not including the fact that there are a lot of characters who can also just run away due to their mobility once they do get anti’d like, Winston leaping to safety, Ball shooting off a mile awhile, Doom punching half a map away, Genji dashing away, Reaper Teleporting out, Sojourn sliding behind cover, Symm teleporting out. Lucio wall riding out, etc.
Now some of these are obviously better than others, but the point being that it’s really not too hard to handle the 12 second cool down of anti’s not only before they land, but even after they land. It’s not an instant death sentence unless you just eating nades and standing out in the open and the anti doesn’t get cleansed by one of the many ways it can be cleansed.
The buff that they are doing is going to make nade do more damage and healing when it lands. Which means it can still be blocked, eaten and avoided. So the buff only helps once it gets passed it’s first stage of having to hit a target and as far as I saw, it’s just buffing the damage, not the actual effect of anti… so it’s not even buffing the best part of the ability.
With every character having more health, the added damage isn’t going to be that extreme. Most squishies are still going to still have 200 health or more after taking damage from the nade if they were full health when they got hit by it.
Yes. She is fun because of those reasons. Being effective and being fun are not mutually exclusive - more often than not, they are correlated.
Also, it is best to keep one’s arguments short. The length of your answer is unnecessary and means most people won’t read it.
I feel like both of you are wrong.
TorbOnly is implying that the only reason ana has a dominant pickrate is because of her busted anti-heal mechanic, and not because she’s an interesting hero to play (aka fun).
To disprove this, easy to play heroes like moira have always been the easiest way to climb out of metal ranks. If hero power level is all that matters, why hasn’t moira ever been the domiant pick in metal ranks? If you wanna climb out of bronze/silver fast, you don’t pick ana, you pick moira. Always is, always has been.
And yet, which support hero is picked the most this month in metal ranks according to Overbuff? Ana and mercy. Even though mercy is in C or D-tier at the moment, is one of the most team-reliant hero, and certainly far from being the strongest.
On the other hand, Mouse-13751 is here claiming that the only reason he plays ana is because she’s fun.
To be fair, he’s speaking for himself so he isn’t even arguing about why ana has a high pickrate across all elos in general.
Regardless, lets assume that he was speaking for why ana is picked often in general.
My question to you guys is this: Why do you have to choose a side and pick one or the other? Don’t you know that it’s possible for there to be a hero that’s arguably the most fun to play in that role AND be one of the strongest in that role at the same time?
Genji, hanzo, and cassidy will always have fairly high pickrates no matter how bad they are. The only time these heroes will no longer get picked as often is if they get dumpstered.
Of course you’ll no longer have fun at the hero if they become F-tier and not be able to impact the game and barely provide value anymore. Just because the hero has a high pickrate despite not being D or F-tier doesn’t disprove how “fun” they are in any shape or form.
I mean how can you possibly have fun if every action you make provides minimal value? Of course if the hero is dogwater, their enjoyment goes down with it as well. The hero has to be somewhat viable for them to be fun. This is common sense.
The better question you guys should be asking is this: is ana’s high pickrate being influenced more by how fun she is, or by how broken she is? This would be a more interesting discussion to have rather than claiming she’s only popular because she’s busted or she’s only popular because she’s fun. Which is rarely the case for any heroes.
So again, I feel like both of you are wrong and need to consider the possibility that maybe it’s a bit of both and not just one or the other.
Yeah, Mouse has been proven incorrect per his own request, but I am going to invoke his wisdom here and not read the novel you’ve written. Godspeed.