Correct. Thank you for understanding.
Not to be rude about saying “TLDR = skim” but yeah. I dont see any redeeming qualities about 5v5. I haven’t enjoyed it. and enough that I played 2 weeks of Overwatch 2.0 after release and only chill in the forums. Because the game is THAT bad.
6v6 is dumb and makes half the damage heroes niche.
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This is a huge oversimplification and misconception and what fueled immeasurable amounts of vitriolic nonsense over the years. “Peeling” for teammates – to wit, helping them when they are in trouble – and not just “healers”, was and is a job for anyone who is in a position to do so. The main job of an “off tank” was to control off angles and side lanes, which often coincided with, yes, helping teammates with enemies who were keen on taking said off angles and side lanes to attack them.
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Ok a better reason why 5v5 is Flawed is because Every game mode beside role que is ruined by OP tanks having no limit
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The game is pretty much TDM now
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Hold on, you cannot defend Jeff Kaplan about how he knows how to balance a game. That is entirely false. Prior to Blizzard he pretty much formed a strike with Steel Warriors in EQ to get the other tanks nerfed.
Than you have WoW, where he carried this mentality that only warriors can tank. Than he destroyed the original min/maxing of WoW because he said it was to complicated removing AP, +hit, etc. I do not know if he had anything to do with PVP but it was pretty terrible after WoD for me.
Than came OW, and you are either forgetting or turning a blind eye. Even prior to GOATS, there was a max exodus early on in OW because of shooter first priority and no limit rules. Around the same patch they kinda fixed Roadhog hooking through walls, players, etc. He defended his ideology of balance by stating, “When you come to an obstacle and unable to beat it, maybe stacking a specific character can assist in overcoming that obstacle.” I know I am messing that quote up but that was his mentality. He was all for stacking and GOAT like teams until OWL/Ladder became boring.
Please do not white knight for Jeff Kaplan when speaking about balance.
I never played WoW, so I don’t know about anything he did pertaining to WoW. That’s number 1. Number 2, I never “white knighted” for him or Geoff Goodman. I merely stated which was true. That they were apart of the OW1 team, and that as bad as OW1 was? It wasn’t as terrible (IMO) as OW2.
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This this this.
Overwatch balancing started going downhill the moment they started putting support’s “last line of defense” burst in their base kits as cooldown abilities, instead of being exlcusive to support ults (like what had been done for the OG healers Mercy, Lucio & Zenyatta).
The horrible ways in which the devs tried to balance out how they designed support kits pushed away most of Overwatch’s tank players. The Moth Mercy rework alone alienated roughly half of the entire support player pool.
After that, many (now formerly) tank and/or support players burned out on those roles after constantly being peer pressured into the incredibly stressful job of being the team’s ONLY healer or tank.
By the time role queue was finally implemented, it was far too late. Most of Overwatch’s tank and support players had already burned out & quit by then, which didn’t leave enough left to fill the queues evenly.
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you seem to forget that this game was created under the concept of “6v6 no limit” and not just 6v6.
we were playing 6 winstons vs 6 torbjorns. so this
is already irrelevant since the day they decided to change it to no hero duplicate, and even more irrelevant when they decided to move to RoleQueue
lol what??? I’ve been playing OW competitively since launch and there have been MANY periods of time over the last 6 years where balance was MUCH much worse than it is right now. GOATs??? Double Shield? Powercreep one shot meta?? Moth Mercy???
We literally have a few overtuned heroes and like 3 undertuned ones right now. All of which can be fixed with easy tweaking/changes. And even with those balance issue standouts overall the game feels fun and fluid again.
That’s a GREAT balance spot to be in.
You really don’t know you contradicted yourself.
Bet. Stay unlearned.
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Absolutely fake.
Ow1 was launched like a fast paced game with a chaotic casual mess gameplay.
Remember Ow1 was launched with No limits gameplay, not open queue.
Oh no no, I fully understand. The sentence essentially makes no sense.
why has this been so heated lmao
Thank you. This feels like such a short sighted and lazy solution to game design problems. Amplifies stomps, reduces layers of strategy, destroys all the other game modes OW had. (Arcade, Custom Game)
For what sake exactly? Queue time?
A lot of the heroes isn’t viable in 5v5.
And queue time wasn’t reduced because of 5v5, it was because they prioritize speed over quality now. And it reduces match quality drastically.
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Beautifully said. You hit the nail perfectly on the head.
Not really.
Simple Blizzard prioritized with 5vs5, Skill based/Competitive gameplay over hand holding casual of ow1 casual mess gameplay.
There wasn’t surely to make queue time better.
But alot more skill based/competitive gameplay with less no skills shields, stuns and tank synergy.
Removing/reducing various things created for hand holding casual, created a better gameplay for Blizzard Overwatch plan.
But this can’t solve the queue time.
After all, the problem for queue time was and are always support role.
i always laugh out loud whenever nyone complains about solo tanking weird nerds come out and go “WELL DID YOU LIKE DOUBLE SHIELD”
that’s a whole butt other statement
honestly, the problem stands up top: blizzard’s inhability to balance and account for the massive changes they make.
this is the third (actually fourth) time they introduce changes to funnel players. They removed hero stacking, they removed role stacking and now they removed one tank, all because they couldn’t balance around people stacking things (and for a time they even introduced ai generated bans because screw player choice i guess).
what’s grueling is that most of this stuff was sorted out eons ago by other games. Paladins for example has a cc and buff diminishing returns. The more ccs and buffs you stack, the less powerful they get, proportionally.
And everytime the same arguments defend these choices “well X synergy was too powerful” or “now they can make heroes stronger”.
if the goal was to get rid of double shield the orisa rework was enough (although sigma should’ve gotten the shield reworked instead) and the new changes would be amazing in 6v6 (outside of the health buffs)
I say what I say in every thread like this:
Tanks aren’t supposed to cover every angle. They aren’t supposed to be able to defend against everyone and everything, front lines, back lines and side lines.
When defending is easier than attacking, it leads to boring, turtley and slow paced game play. When attacking is easier than defending, it leads to action packed and interesting game play. Most real team sports have rules which give advantage to the attacker over defender because that leads to more fast paced games. This is a universal rule of every decent sport and PvP game: attacking must be more favorable than defending.
One tank is better because the tank player needs to make active choice on where to use their limited tanking resource.
The term “off tank” is ridiculous in the first place; it’s just a synonym for big fat flanker DPS. Flanking the other team is not “tanking” and it will never be. The term off tank is a misnomer.
Less defense = better game because it increases the skill and responsilibity of everyone on the team. Your supports require better positioning because there isn’t an “off tank” babysitting them. Your DPS require to counter flankers and peel for their team because your tank may not have time for that. DPS heroes have room to out skill enemy DPS because there isn’t tank denying everything they do.
Pro tip: If you don’t get peeled enough, switch to a hero that is more independent.