Who's weapon is better - Baptiste's rifle, or Ashe's rifle?

Ashe’s Viper: 75 damage per shot, at a fire rate of 0.65
However, take note that she has to scope in, which makes her an easier target because scoping in makes you move slower.
Baptiste’s Biotic launcher 72 damage per shot, at a fire rate of 0.58

Baptiste has a slight edge on Ashe dps wise.
However, Ashe will do slightly better against armoured targets for the first 2 shots.
Ashe does have a secondary fire option, by shooting unscoped. But this is too unreliable due to the unpredictable spread that comes with it.

Before we go into reload times, let’s compare their ammo economies.
Ashe has a 12 round rifle, and Baptiste has a 45 round burst rifle.
Ashe shoots 1 bullet at a time, and Bap shoots 3.
This means that Bap gets 15 shots per magazine, and Ashe gets 12.
Baptiste gets to shoot more often between reloads with very similar throughput.
The winner here, is Bap’s rifle.

Next, let’s look at their reload times.
Baptiste: 1.5 seconds.
Ashe: 0.5 seconds initial animation, followed by 0.25 seconds per bullet, up to 3.5 seconds. but she can interrupt her reload, which isn’t adviced because you’ll have to go through the initial 0.5 seconds long initial animation first.

This means that Baptiste has more sustained dps than Ashe as well.

Next, let’s look at falloff.
Baptiste: 25-45 meters.
Ashe: 30-50 meters.

Ashe’s viper has the slight edge here.

Summary

Now, my question here is, is Bap’s damage too high, or is Ashe’s too low.
Because one is a support, with some of the best utility and highest possible healing throughputs in the game. And the other is just a hitscan dps. Yet their weapons have nearly identical throughputs.

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I thought we were comparing weapons? If you want to now compare them as heroes, you have to look at their full kits. When you do that, you can see Ashe has the potential to do way more damage thanks to dynamite, fitting for a dps

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This ignores their way of firing.
Ashe is pinpoint, Baptiste isn’t, it’s a volley of three, which can miss even if you hit 1 or 2.
Ashe can headshot you for 150, chances are baptiste will not be headshotting you.

It’s not all about dps. Burst plays a massive factor, if Ashe headshots you, her next shot can kill you unless you receive 50 healing before she hits you again in the body. She can do this from further away.

Baptiste has to fire, hit three shots that recoil upward, at max and if you’re extra lucky he can hit 2 headshots. More than likely one though, amounting to 96 damage, which isn’t even enough for the bodyshots to land. At extreme distances his fall-off AND spread kicks in making his damage even more unreliable than Ashe’s.

Ashe’s damage is better in terms of kill confirms, burst and reliability. Baptiste has good damage but none of the burst or reliability.

Considering their wider kits, Baptiste has way less damage potential due to Ashe having dynamite.

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Fair game, but i think it’s rather dubious for a support to have a weapon that’s as good-if not better than a hitscan dps’s rifle when Bap is a support and already gets such an overloaded kit.

Bap’s weapon is pinpoint too.
Just slightly drag your mouse down while aiming.

You can’t pretend it’s ever going to be as precise as 1 shot in a game with as fast movement as OW.
If Ashe hits the headshot it’s all done instantly. if Baptiste fires he has to shoot all 3 with recoil which can easily make the difference on a lot of targets. Dragging slightly down doesn’t solve the issue of the recoil. Soldier isn’t as precise as McCree or Ashe either even if you drag his recoil down.

If Ashe misses a shot she deals no damage, If Bap misses a shot there’s still 2 follow up bullets. And i don’t quite grasp the recoil argument. As someone who frequently plays other shooters, recoil in Overwatch is pretty much non existent.

Also Ashe:

  • Dynamite
  • shotgun
  • Robot Buttler with dual twin-linked Auto-cannons

Except bap’s 3 shot burst and Soldier. it still matters how they fire for reliability reasons.

Yes and it’s still harder for Bap to land all 3 than it is for Ashe to land 1.

The answer is bapt is op

Marginally at best.
But even then, Baptiste is a support with an already overwhelmingly good base kit.
None of the other supports except for Zenyatta deal as much damage as Bap. And Zenyatta’s entire design is being a damage focussed support. But even then, Zen only has 30 extra dps on Bap (through discord) and he shoots projectiles. (Granted, the rest of Zen’s team also gets 25% damage) Bap is all hitscan just like Ashe.

It looks like Ashe does something to the tune of 18k damage per game up in GM while Bap does 8k. :woman_shrugging:t3:

That’s assuming Overbuff isn’t confused about either character’s damage, like it is for Mei.

I dont think nerfing bap’s damage a little would hurt too much, lord knows he needs nerfs (though his damage wouldn’t be my first choice)

So we’re moving from comparing Baptiste to Soldier to comparing him to Ashe? Good to see we’re still completely ignoring Baptiste’s primary function of healing when comparing him to damage characters. Consistency is important.

So you are doing the “bap does more damage then soldier” thing but with ashe.

Even though we all know NOW those post then were factually not true. Much like this

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Not really, when you consider their whole kits. Look at their guns in a bubble and maybe Baptiste (or Zen for that matter) has a better weapon than a DPS.

End of the day though, Baptiste often has to commit to firing his healing grenades for his team/use lamp since he is a support while Ashe as a DPS, can commit to dealing damage.

It doesn’t matter that Bap’s weapon could hit higher numbers because as a hero, he often won’t. Hero roles shouldn’t have coded rules in it like “supports can’t have teeth” or “High health heroes need to be tanks”. Baptiste’s kit gets all of its value from him playing as a support.

Now, give his gun to someone like Lucio and then it could be weird (which is why Lucio shoots pancakes). Lucio and Zen don’t need to divide their time between heal/damage so they get the projectile weapons. Single target heal no sustain zen = strong projectile, aoe heal sustain heavy Lucio = inconsistent projectile.

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Bap spends time healing.

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So why does it matter if Bap has a theoretically better attack if in practice it’s held back by other duties?

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Because the rest of his kit is already so overwhelmingly powerful?
We’re not seeing Ana do more damage than actual dps heroes.

It sure is easy to look at things in a vacuum to frame an argument in a disingenuous fashion, huh gang?

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I will say this again for the people in the back.

Baptiste is 4TH on the list amongst supports in damage.

Behind zen, Moira, and lucio.

Does lucio do more damage then ashe? :man_facepalming:t6:

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