So there was too much Sombra, but I feel like now there is too much Widowmaker. But which is worse? Why can’t there be some other way?
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It’s Widowmaker and it’s not even close
The Sombra or Widow discussion is like the perfect OW Litmus test
if someone thinks Sombra is OP they’re probably in a lower ELO, and if someone thinks Widow is OP they’re probably higher ELO
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Widow is so much more a threat sombra is just annoying. Sure, she can ruin certain plays, but she doesn’t really require your team to play around her too often you just have to ping her, and she will be dealt with fast usually. Widow on the other hand requires constant supervision and a lot of the time swaps are necessary in order to protect yourself from her if her shots are landing. I’ve gone up against some widows that can easily take out a Juno rushing her team or a Winston headshot during a leap and its one of those things where your just like ARRRRRG. Anyone I mean anyone who thinks its sombra has never played against a well-trained widow before you almost just want give u after you see the 10th bull eyes marker on your teams’ portraits in the kill feed.
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People didn’t say Sombra’s OP, but very, very annoying to deal with.
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i mean widow is also just as annoying and she’s way stronger, yet she didn’t get gutted
it’s just blatant favouritism
even if they do balance based on how annoying heroes are instead of how effective they are, where TF are the widow nerfs. she is 1000000x more annoying than sombra
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They’ll conveniently show up When her mythic is gone. it’s pretty obvious that the devs were making a poke meta just for her mythic if you look at the patches
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I’ve seen plenty of people say Sombra was OP and even “uncounterable”.
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Only the factual people say this (myself included). She was seriously fine, but I understood people venting on it.
Now they can deal with Widow one-shoting the lobby across the universe and requiring a mirror/matchup or very coordinated team effort.
This is what the forums wanted after all. A game where Sombra barely exists and Widow becomes oppressive as heck the higher they go. Silly us isn’t it.
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But you can still SEE Widow pre-Sombra nerf/rework.
She probably already shot at least one of your teammates for you to be able to see her as a speck on the horizon. She can also change position constantly.
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Why does it matter if I can see her when she’s at a range that I cannot interact with her? Seeing her means she also sees you. There’s no clear visual indicators for a hero that is so lethal. Her positioning is not obvious. There is no sniper glint. There is no laser sight. There’s only a bullet trail if she misses like every other hitscan
The frustration stems from turning a corner and getting domed without any chance to react or outplay it. If Sombra pops out of invis you don’t get one shot. You have time to move around and dodge and actually duel her at close range
And say I do see her 58m away, her first shot advantage is too severe for us to be on the same visual playing field. She can one shot me from that range. I do 20 damage to her from that range. There needs to be clearer visual indicators and feedback that you’re going to die. It shouldn’t just be “Oh I turned a corner and got domed before I could even react from 50m away”. Like at least add glint or sway or some mechanic
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Sombra is by far worse as it always requires you to be alert the whole match through.
Against widow you have multiple ways of avoiding her 1 shot, she isnt perma stealth and usually moving around the same few usual spots. If a widow is bad then you know they arent gonna be hitting any shots or at best body shots.
A bad sombra can still annoy you because shes perma in stealth and can choose whenever she wants to appear to harrass you.
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I hard disagree with this, widow doesn’t need a glint mechanic, we don’t need to dumb the game down furthermore.
But I extremely agree widow requires notable changes as her kit singlehandedly can reverse the entire flow of a game. I’ve done it in scrims as a flex-DPS of all things, went ahead and got us on a momentum run just because I wiped 3 people with one-shots. I literally have like 25 hours on the hero in 8 years, it shouldn’t be like that, even less in OW2.
Perhaps we will need to rework Widow and one-shots in general since we’re dumbing this game down. They’re basically the last former system of the game that predates OW2, it just doesn’t fit as it is. But I think it’s not too far off from feeling fine and it felt fine when Sombra existed to a moderate degree like before the rework at least.
This is false in higher elo. The mere presence of Widow can singlehandedly ruin the entire match flow, even if she misses. Because the fear of getting randomly picked or skillfully picked is not forgiving for your team.
Sombra actually had a response, even if low. There are several matchups that didn’t require mirroring.
Against widow, you can’t heal dead people. The “ways to counter her” the higher you go pretty much disappear since it usually becomes “whoever snipes better than the other one” mirror matchup (applies to Widow/Hanzo duels).
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Sombra. I rarely ever get annoyed playing a Widow, and if I do, it’s because she’s being pocketed by unkillable Supports.
Sombra’s existence is just annoying to the core. I don’t care how “counter-able” or “track-able” she is. Having my abilities turned off with little to no effort will never not be annoying.
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Dont know what you consider higher elo but i consistently face multiple masters+ players in most of my matches. Sure its qp and they prob arent trying as hard as they would in comp but they still have a pretty decent level of aim.
Let me give you an example, a gm widow who 1 shots me everytime i’m out of cover i have the option to a)stay behind cover and still support my team, b)play a hero with mobility/shield that can get me pass the open areas to the next cover. Could also res/get ressed.
If it was a gm sombra instead theres nothing much i can do except pop my cooldowns to run and pray for the best and hope my teamates can react and deal with the sombra before i die in the middle of a chaotic teamfight.
I would also like to relax while walking out of spawn and not be paranoid that a sombra will appear at anytime giving me little time to react especially if i’m like scratching my face or drinking water on 1 hand.
That’s the thing, if you’re able to get past Sombra problems in low elo, then you get Widow problems, that’s pretty much how it went and the “response to both” is just a cross. In lower elo, Sombra was annoying and widow was meant to lose that duel since well, widow isn’t much of a problem up to minimum mid/high diamond. In higher elo, it was expected to be Widow winning the duel since Sombra was pretty much almost just never a problem a lot of times.
Now that the equilibrium to this is gone, Widow is pretty much free to exists unless mirrored or severely outmatched to a skill game with other heroes (in lower ranks).
Anything that starts around diamond and masters is pretty much high elo (based on the season 12 distribution of ranks). I also play in an eSports team who can run in collegiate tier potentially next year (mid diamond-mid masters individuals in the team, mid-diamond ranking in team play so far).
A GM widow, at least my experience, figure a way to find that 1 angle who puts so much pressure on you that you become claustrophobic and lose your sanity because if you peak for just enough, you’re done.
Communication literally counters Sombra alone. Peeling also did it. Also playing in 3/2 splits or brawly compositions made Sombra really hard to get hard value on anything.
Widow and Sombra can perform both the exact same type of spawn camping (before rework), what changed is which rank you were in. Havana was the best case example of this, either you had sombra at the doors or Widow across the road doing it. Obviously that all changed with the rework of Sombra and the maps reworks, but Widow’s presence is severely underestimated.
I played against a team in GM on FACEIT this summer with my previous team who had a widow as central core to their build, we got 0 kills because we couldn’t match her on a mirror game and she was practically impossible to touch since she always had an angle to 1 person in our team, despite a shield. Also the Winston response (or Dive) is a dangerous trade in coordinated play since you willingly abandon space for a widow kill that might not happen., it could work in ranked better doe.
There is no response to a 1-shot except 1-shotting faster or immortalities (higher elo), there is counterplay in lower elo (because most widow haven’t learned the game fully yet).
EDIT: Sombra and Widow actually have similar ways to be countered, but Sombra had the decency of many “if” and not one-shot potential in her build. Widow simply controls the flow of the game better than most DPS, but she isn’t a top pick because she’s not consistent, just like Sombra who wasn’t consistent, simply annoying.
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Actually according to this forum.
Sombra was OP like crazy.
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Forum Sombra was Overwatch 2’s SS+ tier hero, when she was cooked in pickrates and winrates for most ranks lmao.
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I think only ball and widow players could think sombra was OP tbh
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But you would know where the widow is and like i mentioned before, you have shield or mobility options to get pass open areas into cover. You dont even have such a luxury against sombra.
Vast majority of players also arent playing in stacks much less expecting everybody to be in voice comms in every mode.
Yes widow can “spawn camp” you but she has 1 attempt if she misses you will react at the same time she cant do it in most maps. Theres also the fact that if the teamfight is still going on, she is very unlikely to be in a position to be able to shoot you walking out from spawn unlike sombra who can be completely free to harrass you.
Which is completely irrelvant because 90% of the playerbase do not play scrims since thats like you saying owl matches are similar to ladder.