Where has the skill in supports gone?

OkageTadaka-1577 · September 16, 2018, 6:45pm

If the opinion is based off of false information it can indeed be debunked. Just a general statement.

Ryan-111758 · September 16, 2018, 6:47pm

Actually Mercy’s Bunny hop bug was a result of her rework being introduced onto PTR and her having zero air resistance for a time, allowing you to shift cancel and then hold space for a full momentum boost. This was many months before the movement patch.

Not quite. The bug was fixed in the October Halloween event update, and a few days later they added in an official Bunny Hop feature whereby pressing/holding Spacebar at any point during GA allows you to bunnyhop, and there is also a superjump feature via holding crouch/shift at the same time and using bunnyhop to gain immense vertical height.

Mitrovarr-1405 · September 16, 2018, 6:49pm

Well designed healers benefit from skill in other ways. Like Lucio does a lot more damage if you have good aim.

Sandity-1715 · September 16, 2018, 6:52pm

An opinion can be factually incorrect.

Goes to show you’ve haven’t actually read the thread.

OkageTadaka-1577 · September 16, 2018, 6:52pm

The great thing for Lucio’s shots is that they can do a lot of damage if they connect but they are also a great area denial attack, meaning you spam an area and it deters people from going into it as quickly.

Brawl-2310 · September 16, 2018, 6:53pm

I think most supports are in a really good spot in terms of skill requirement.
Ana feels really good if you learn to play her well and is also fairly well balanced.
Moira also is not that easy, but also not too difficult. She might need a small buff, but other than that she is still fine.
Brigitte is a bit unbalanced, but in my opinion not as easy to play as everyone says.
Zen is just as good as always and needs a lot of skill to play well.
Lucio, while you are right, is also not as easy to play (In my opinion).
The only exception in that is Mercy which needs almost nothing, but one brain cell to be played well. Even if you play her well she still feels like “That’s not enough…”.

You see… Supports will always get the short end of the stick, because they are the heroes which define the Meta at the end of the day.
But i agree with you that the way how Blizzard (or better said Team 4) is handling all supports is just wrong.

They should try to make all viable and fun to play with, as and against. And not that “Now you get the big sword, the other guy had it way to long. We give him a wood stick in the in the meantime.”.

No… You are on a really wrong path if you think that.
E res is solely because of the CD far less skillful than Mass Res. On top of that comes the very situational use of it which always boils down to “Is it save or not?” and nothing more.
Valkyrie is nothing but an easy mode for her base kit. The best description of it is still “Easy mode, afk, pro simulator”.
It can be used in any situation without any thinking and is just the best get out of jail card in the game… nothing more.
About the movement, ignoring Valkyrie, you are not that wrong, but also not right. Yes it is a bit more complex now, but good Mercy player’s already used that small speed boost/rubberband thing back then with Mercy 1.x. Yes it already existed back then, but it was not as strong and way harder to use well.
It’s better now, but also easier to learn.

Mercy is the hero with the lowest skill ceiling and floor of all heroes, thanks to her rework. What you are saying is just wrong.

Sylhiri-1495 · September 16, 2018, 6:54pm

That’s in terms of damage which will also be capped no matter how much skill is needed. In terms of healing it will never get past a certain point as well because thats how the game is balanced.

Titanium-1686 · September 16, 2018, 7:00pm

That question is answered in the post Sandity quoted. The answer is yes.

This is debunked in that post.

The variety of ways to use Resurrect was reduced to less than a fifth of what it used to be, and that’s looking at numerical values alone.

Not if the tool you add is brain-dead in nature, and actually detracts from the skills required in the hero’s base kit.
Stares at Valkyrie.

Objectively false.

Also objectively false.

A condition that is not limited to one situation, is it?

Because she probably couldn’t keep them alive.

This is also false. Of the handful of ultimates I compared it to at the time, resurrect charged slower on average than:

Tactical Visor.
DragonBlade.
Rocket Barrage.
Transcendence.
Nano-Boost.
Whole Hog.

HI! I’m now part of the conversation. Here are my arguments:

Goldlantern-1543 · September 16, 2018, 7:15pm

Firstly, I’m not sure you know what objectively means. Having a difference of opinion on something does not make it objectively false.

Secondly, that thread is absolutely made up of opinions occasionally accompanied by cherry-picked stats that leave out the parts that DON’T support your position. For example, stating that mass rez took over five minutes to full charge when sitting still is meaningless without talking about how quickly she could charge it on a regular basis just by healing an average amount before, during, and after team fights. It was, in fact, one of the fastest-charging ults by far in average situations. Anecdotally, I played a lot of Mercy at GM level at the time and it was pretty rare that I didn’t have mass rez up for every single team fight.

Yes, mass rez was ONLY usable in one situation. That’s not variety.
People had to be dead or it did nothing and it was an instant cast ability with no line of sight requirements. Valkyrie is usable at any time and it’s effectiveness is determined ENTIRELY by the skill of the Mercy using it.

If you can’t find an interesting way to use a multi heal/damage beam with hyper-increased mobility and an unlimited ammo pistol all while literally flying to your advantage, that’s a you problem. That’s not a Mercy problem.

Tealos-1658 · September 16, 2018, 7:19pm

Don’t tell anyone that I’m still getting these all the time.

…Please.

Goldlantern-1543 · September 16, 2018, 7:21pm

I won’t, but you might’ve just said that where everyone can see it. Yeah, I’m glad the burst is still useful to an extent. I just meant that it’s harder to pull off than it used to be. More skill!

Brawl-2310 · September 16, 2018, 7:42pm

The thing is, the max Dmg a DPS can do is just as much capped as the healing of the supports. 76 can’t deal more dmg with one hit than 38 HP max, as much as Ana can’t heal more than ~112 HP max per hit.

And while DPSs mostly only deal Dmg, supports need to take care of way more other stuff as well.
I don’t wan to say that anyone which plays DPSs is not as skillful as support players, but over all the skill ceiling of almost all sups is higher than the one from DPSs.

I think you overlook the issue in your statement. All of that can be done with Mercy without the need to use Valkyrie. Valkyrie makes things just easier, but not more effective. On top of that the outcome of Valkyrie (In terms of E res and the main beam’s) is not at all determined by the Mercy player, but her/his team.
And if it comes to her gun, as i said, Valkyrie only removes thought processes. You don’t need to think about reloading or special positioning. Just fly in to the face of someone and hold LMB. If it get’s too dangerous use your GA to get out on almost all distances.

It’s still a Mercy problem, not a “you” problem. Your opinion might be that Mercy is more skillful in 2.x but the reality says something completely different. I know now some other Mercy players from GM (Titanium is one of them) and a few T500 (Which are still very active) Mercy players as well and they all pretty much agree that she is far less skillful/active now than before. I myself was a Master player with a MMR in GM/500 (with the rework as well) and all i can say is that Mercy is the hero with a skill floor and ceiling at the same level, very far down only because of her changes.

hop-21382 · September 16, 2018, 7:47pm

Note: I don’t actually care about Mercy’s state, as long as she’s not dominating the game for 5 months, I’m not getting into it.

Imo Lucio was much better before the global movement changes. He was faster, lighter and momentum felt how it should, and not somehow bring able to turn mid-air just by holding W and looking in a different direction. It was more difficult and required far far more time, effort and concentration to learn Lucio’s wall riding mechanics - but, you didn’t even need to learn them to be good, they were purely for fun and gave Lucio mains more solo-ability if they wanted to.

Goldlantern-1543 · September 16, 2018, 7:51pm

It seems like we all just have differences in opinion, then. Pre-rework usage statistics showed that Mercy was far less preferable to skilled players than she has been at any point since then. I don’t think that means “reality says something completely different”. My reality (and that of many others) says the complete opposite of what you’re saying. I can’t convince anybody otherwise when there are such strong opinions attached to the subject. I’m just glad the people who make the game agreed with me and made the changes I wanted.

Rocktopus-11683 · September 16, 2018, 8:09pm

I love the new wallride. Sure it’s easier, but theres a lot more freedom and I think it’s well worth it.

On the other hand, I wish Moira was harder and had a higher skill ceiling.

Sandity-1715 · September 16, 2018, 8:21pm

I wish the same for mercy since 2.0 was a huge step backwards in that regard.

Brawl-2310 · September 16, 2018, 8:25pm

Well, that’s waht opinions are. It’s just trying to explain other opinions and maybe change some of them.

That had a clear reason. Other support heroes just overpowered Mercy back then. That has nothing to do with her skill ceiling/floor. It just means that other sups were just better than her on max efficiency. But after seeing some of them play Mercy back then, i only can say that they never used her properly as well.

Anyway, the fact is that only because they didn’t used her does not say that they considered her as a low skill hero. Both things have nothing to do with each other.

And about the reality thing…
If high level players of one hero say that said hero lost a significant amount of skill requirement to be played properly… That already says a lot. But not only the high rank players says that. I know players from all ranks and all say the same regarding her skill ceiling/floor. And on many community poll a pattern is visible.
Fun, skill and balance polls about her have almost always the same results. Over 50% say that, in all regards, old Mercy was just better. Les than 40% think that Val is better in all regards. (They are not from the forums i may add)
And even some pros which forced that wrong opinion of hide and res went back and said that old Mercy was better as well as some youtubers.

Well… after said people in the dev team went away from other Bilzzard games, these games also became way better according to the communities of those.
And the overall decision making of the dev team in terms of changes to heroes/game balance becomes more and more questionable lately.

Sylhiri-1495 · September 16, 2018, 10:04pm

The DPS can increase his damage from skill via headshots, therefore the more skill you put into a DPS the more damage you can put in. Looking at healing characters they do maximum something around around half of what a single DPS character doing maximum or less. Ana is the closest thing to skill based healing and she can do a little less then Moira’s level.

The game is built around the idea that DPS will always be able to bypass healing if they have xx% accuracy. Tank characters either block or disrupt that damage in order for healing to catch up to the damage. Therefore it is designed to have a hard cap on how much healing is allowed in the match per healer, anything higher generally gets nerfed, this means there will be no healing reward for skill past the allowed healing cap of around Moira (currently) unless it is heavily restricted (usually a cooldown).

So when it comes to healing, there is no reason to make it harder since you will never get an equal reward compared to DPS characters.

Titanium-1686 · September 16, 2018, 10:23pm

“in a way that is not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.”

Let’s look at those assertions again.

Looking at the conditions required to use Resurrect in the first place, this is objectively false. No other ability in the game requires at least one ally to be dead while the player using the ability is still alive in order to activate said ability in the first place, meaning that said player has lived through lethal events.

With most abilities in the game, activation is allowed by one thing:

Press its respective key to activate the ability.

With Resurrect, it was/is:

Survive an attack that resulted in the death of at least one ally.
Press its respective key to activate the ability.

Now throw in the thought process in on top of that:

Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State

As for how the best execution of old Resurrect was determined… It depended upon a lot of variables. For starters, here are some variables and questions considered before the engagement begins:

Living allies prior to the teamfight. Are we a full team, or are some allies dead/walking back from spawn?

Living enemies prior to the teamfight. Does this put us at a numbers advantage/disadvantage? Is it possible that additional enemies will join the fight late?

Ultimates held by present allies. Are there any allies I should prioritize when it comes time to Resurrect because of their ultimates?

Ultimates held by present enemies. How many ultimates does the enemy team have at the ready? Does this put us at an advantage/disadvantage in primed ultimates? Are there any ultimates I should be weary of in particular?

Missing enemies. Are there any enemies I cannot see/have not accounted for? Are they flanking? Where might they attack from? Am I their target?

Allied positions. When things get hot, who can I fly to for safety? Will I still be able to heal the frontline from there, or will healing the tanks require another reposition?

Mercy’s position. How can I place myself in a way that still allows me to support the team, but minimizes the enemy’s ability to shoot at me? If I am directly attacked, could a reach a position that gives me an advantage in that fight? Are there nearby healthpacks that I could take advantage of?

Engagement patterns. Will the enemy get a pick and then engage, or will they fly through that choke point, ultimates blazing? If we are the team initiating, which pattern will we follow?

During the engagement, here are some of the variables the player might consider in the heat of battle:

Midfight numbers. Are we at an advantage/disadvantage in this category? Will Resurrect give us a numbers advantage? Is Resurrect even necessary to win the fight?

Enemy activity. How aggressive are they playing? Are they slowly gaining an upper hand, or has all hell broken loose? How aggressive is each one playing? Do the aggressive ones have their ultimates ready? Are they prepared for me to use Resurrect, or are they too blinded by their tunnel vision to realize I’m still here?

Death locations. Are my allies close enough to one another to be revived in a single use of Resurrect? Is there a specific position I should attempt to reach to revive them all? Would reviving a particular ally provide our team with an advantage due to their location in relation to the enemy?

Midfight ultimates. What ultimates are active? What ultimates do we still have? What ultimates does the enemy still have? How can I bait out those ultimates? What ultimates do our dead allies have? Are they in a position to use them?

Respawn timers. Will more allies die before that first ally respawns? Should I revive that first ally now, or should I hold onto resurrect until more allies are down?

Resurrect priorities. If I am forced to choose between reviving one ally or the other, which do I choose, based upon their hero, skill, and ultimate status?

Enemy positions. Where is each living enemy? Are any flanking around in an attempt to kill me? Am I in the sights of any enemies?

Safety/practicality limits. Is it too dangerous for me to have a presence in the fight anymore? Would healing my team even be useful at this point? Is it time for me to pull back and supplement healing with pistol fire?

Post-rez outcome. Given all of the above variables, what are the chances that my team will win the fight after I resurrect them? If the chances are not in our favor, how can I tip them in our favor? Who should I try to finish off with my pistol while taking advantage of the invulnerability frames? If the post-rez fight will not be in our favor, should I bother using Resurrect at all?

…And your assertion that

is…

Let’s look at the other one.

This is like saying that Tactical Visor can only be used in one situation; the one in which the enemy team isn’t dead.

Except… the situation in which the enemy team isn’t dead contains a countless number of situations. It isn’t one situation. Likewise, the situation in which at least one ally is dead isn’t just one situation.

You contradict the first half of the sentence with the second half.

So…

A hypothetical person named Bob thinks that the Earth is flat. That is his opinion. Does this suddenly make the fact that the Earth is a sphere subjective?

No. It makes Bob’s opinion objectively incorrect.

Elaborate on that.

I see that sweeping assertion quite a bit. No one has ever actually followed up on it. How about you actually cite some of those “opinions”, and how the underlying arguments for them are incorrect?

Well, it’s a pretty good thing that the circumstances of the post used it in a way that isn’t at all what you are suggesting it was used for…

Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State

First is the availability of Resurrect now versus Mercy’s 1.x versions. Today, Resurrect runs on a consistent 30 second cooldown regardless as to the Mercy player’s performance. Killing a Mercy repeatedly does not impede upon their ability to return and use Resurrect; the only thing Mercy needs to have Resurrect available is time, and nothing in the game can deprive her of that. Mercy 1.x, on the other hand, needed to fill a resource meter in order to use Resurrect. Sure, that resource charged passively over time, but at an incredibly slow rate proportional to the requirement. If the player were to just wait for that resource to fill passively, they would be waiting 5 minutes and 25 seconds, which could be half the match by itself.

Anyway, because Mercy needed to fill a resource in order to use Resurrect on an acceptable basis, it was far easier to impede its availability by targeting or eliminating the Mercy. The time respawning and walking back to the fight would otherwise be time spent healing, shooting, or amplifying damage, depriving her of ultimate charge and therefore a use of resurrect.

You might notice the “Anyway”. That means that it wasn’t central to the point.

On top of that, the assertion is correct. If the Mercy player were to let their ultimate charge passively, it would take 5 minutes and 25 seconds to charge it. This is supporting argument that:

When you provide the context, the data isn’t misleading at all, nor was it cherry picked. How fast the average Mercy player charged Resurrect (which I will get to in a minute) isn’t an argument in either direction of:

The average Mercy player wasn’t sitting around waiting for Resurrect to charge passively. The average Mercy doesn’t fit the criteria.

I can prove this incorrect.

Do you want me to prove it incorrect?

I’m going to prove it incorrect. Let me grab some of my older posts.

June 28th, 2017:

"Edit: Some people were complaining that the above data is too theoretical. In that case, let’s pull up some averages. To factor in eliminations with ultimates, I will subtract 200 damage in charge per kill. All data is pulled from Overbuff, specifically the Competitive statistics. CR = conversion ratio.

Mercy:
520 damage = 520 charge.
11905 healing = 9524 charge (4/5 CR).
593 damage amplified = 2569.67 damage done by boosted target = 1927.25 charge (3/4 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 14971.25.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.21 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Soldier:76:
16085 damage = 16085 charge.
1972 healing = 1972 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1092 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 19965.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.62 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Genji:
13545 damage = 13545 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1304 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15241.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.16 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Tracer:
13135 damage = 13135 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-804 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15331.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 13.63 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Pharah:
16523 damage = 16523 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1140 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 18383.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.94 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Winston:
9887 damage = 9887 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-604 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 12283
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.93 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Zarya:
12140 damage = 12140 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1098 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 14042.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 7.49 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Roadhog
14842 damage = 14842 charge.
3823 healing = 3823 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-798 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 20867.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.43 ultimates in 10 minutes.

For !@#$s and giggles, let’s calculate the charge rate of the other support ultimates.

Zenyatta:
9621 damage = 9621 charge.
7350 healing - 2172.73 Transcendence healing = 5177.27 non-ult healing = 6834.00 charge (33/25 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 19455.00.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.38 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Lucio:
7026 damage = 7026 charge.
10322 healing = 13074.43 charge (19/15 CR).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 23100.53.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.80 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Ana:
3668 damage = 3668 charge.
8791 healing = 8791 charge (I am assuming the CR is 1/1, as it is not otherwise specified).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 15459.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.37 ultimates in 10 minutes."

August 12th, 2017:

"Don’t like arguments based off of theoretical numbers? Have some averages. All data is pulled from Overbuff, specifically the Competitive statistics. To factor in eliminations with ultimates, I will subtract 200 damage in charge per kill. Everything is measured in average/10 minutes, any damage factored in is hero damage, and CR = conversion ratio.

Mercy:
521 damage = 521 charge.
11912 healing = 9529.6 charge (4/5 CR).
542 damage amplified = 2348.67 damage done by boosted target = 1761.50 charge (3/4 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 14812.1.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.12 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Soldier:76:
15804 damage = 15804 charge.
2018 healing = 2018 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1094 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 19728.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.51 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Genji:
13316 damage = 13316 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1290 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15026.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.02 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Tracer:
12875 damage = 12875 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-756 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15119.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 13.44 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Pharah:
16241 damage = 16241 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1106 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 18135.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.80 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Winston:
9915 damage = 9915 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-598 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 12317
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.96 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Zarya:
11973 damage = 11973 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1082 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 13891.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 7.41 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Roadhog
14041 damage = 14041 charge.
3942 healing = 3942 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-780 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 20203.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.10 ultimates in 10 minutes.

For sh*ts and giggles, let’s calculate the charge rate of the other healer ultimates.

Zenyatta:
9379 damage = 9379 charge.
7390 healing - 2158.60 Transcendence healing = 5231.40 non-ult healing = 6905.45 charge (33/25 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 19284.45.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.29 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Lucio:
6988 damage = 6988 charge.
10519 healing = 13324.07 charge (19/15 CR).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 23312.07.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.88 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Ana:
3629 damage = 3629 charge.
8789 healing = 8789 charge (I am assuming the CR is 1/1, as it is not otherwise specified).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 15418.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.34 ultimates in 10 minutes."

So… for “one of the fastest-charging ults by far in average situations”, it sure did a good job of… charging pretty flipping slow.

Of the ultimates you see listed above, Resurrect charged slower on average than:

Transcendence.
Tactical Visor.
Dragonblade.
Rocket Barrage.
Nano-Boost.
Whole Hog.
Pulse Bomb.

*On one (or five) condition(s), that allowed for a bunch of different situations.

You only use offensive ultimates when the enemy team is alive. Is that excluding variety?
You only use healing abilities when allies are below full health. Is that excluding variety?

There’s a bit of a flaw in your argument…

That allows for quite a lot of variety in application.

Yes.

An ability that throws just about every skill required to use Mercy’s base kit out that window and replaces it with what is realistically just a spectator mode while holding LMB or RMB is “determined entirely by the skill of the Mercy using it”.

All the interesting things are done for you, thus removing any interest in these two.

Cool, I can fly. How is this helping me in any way other than just providing me with a means to remove myself from the fight while I let my auto-lock beams that I no longer have to manage do all the work for me?

Isn’t it clear that there’s a problem when the most interesting way to use Valkyrie is contradictory to Mercy’s design?

I’ll just… Plop this here.

Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State

Why is this thing still an ultimate ability?

Functionality:

Valkyrie is a disgusting… pile? I’m trying to think of a good word to describe it…

Looks up synonyms for “pile”

“Conglomeration”.

Valkyrie is a disgusting conglomerate of existing abilities that were all thrown into a single ability with seemingly no regard for cohesion or player experience. There’s nothing original in Valkyrie.

Flight? Pharah has that.
Mediocre AoE healing? Hello, Moira, Lucio, and Ana.
AoE damage amplifier? Orisa.

As a result of trying to put all of these into one ability, the developers also made every ultimate that Valkyrie contends with (or tries to, anyway) simply outclass it. The ability can be summarized by “Jack of all trades, remotely sufficient in none”.

Valkyrie poses the opposite problem that Resurrect does. Rather than an ultimate placed behind a basic ability, Valkyrie is a basic ability placed behind an ultimate.

Let’s list what Valkyrie currently offers:

Allows Mercy to fly in any direction at 9 meters/second. (5.5 is base walking speed for most heroes).

Extends the range of Mercy’s beams from 15 meters to 30 meters.

Extends the range of Guardian Angel from 30 meters to 50 meters.

Mercy’s passive regeneration is no longer interrupted by damage.

Mercy’s beams spread to all allies within 10 meters of the primary target.

Guardian Angel’s flight speed is increased.

Mercy’s pistol has infinite ammunition and a faster projectile speed.

If we were to cut this list down to the parts that actually have a direct influence on the fight, we would get:

Mercy’s beams spread to all allies within 10 meters of the primary target.

Mercy’s pistol has infinite ammunition and a faster projectile speed.

That’s it. Everything else either has no realistic use, or it just makes Mercy harder to kill… which doesn’t really matter being that she removes herself from the fight while using Valkyrie anyway.

Let’s throw these capabilities up against the ultimate abilities that are most comparable to Valkyrie: Transcendence and Supercharger.

Transcendence is very similar to the healing aspect of Valkyrie in several ways. Both heroes gain additional mobility upon activation. They both heal all five allies in a 10 meter radius around Zenyatta/the primary beam target. They both become (effectively) unkillable while using their respective ultimates. They are both unable to impact the fight in any way other than healing while healing their team with their ultimates; Zenyatta is a channeled ultimate, and Mercy is unable to heal and shoot at the same time.

What’s the difference between Transcendence and Valkyrie? Transcendence has five times the healing output (soon to be six!). Transcendence heals for 300 health/second on every target. Valkyrie heals for 60 health/second on every target. Valkyrie’s healing rate is simply blown out of the water by Transcendence.

Unfortunately, we do not have statistics that tell us exactly how much healing Mercy is doing through Valkyrie, but we do know that Mercy’s overall healing output really isn’t much higher than it was pre-rework. As of the day I am typing this (August 7th), Mercy’s average healing output is 12085. Her pre-rework healing numbers were around 11900. If we were to just assume that Valkyrie’s introduction is the only thing responsible for the current statistic, we would only be able to say that Valkyrie provides a bonus 200 healing/game on average. In contrast, Zenyatta averages 2259 Transcendence healing/game.

Supercharger is one of three ultimates that increase a player’s damage output, the other ones being Valkyrie and Nano-Boost. Its visuals are similar to the visuals of Valkyrie’s damage amplification beam, and both ultimates amplify the damage of all allies in an area around the Supercharger/primary beam target.

The similarities stop there, and just about every difference between the two abilities favors Supercharger over Valkyrie. For starters, Supercharger has fire-and-forget mechanics. Orisa can deploy it and resume playing as usual, as she does not need to channel the damage beams for them to be active. In contrast, Mercy becomes the supercharger, effectively removing the team’s main healer from the fight while she channels her damage beams. Furthermore, not only does Orisa get to participate in the fight while her ultimate is active, but she also receives the damage benefits from her own damage amplification. Valkyrie is five players and one buff dispenser; Supercharger is six players and one buff dispenser.

As if another source of damage was not enough for Supercharger to outclass Valkyrie’s damage amplifier, Supercharger also increases the damage of all affected targets by 50%, instead of Valkyrie’s 30%. On top of this, it also has a substantially larger AoE radius than Valkyrie; 25 meters. The one downside Supercharger has in comparison to Valkyrie is that it needs to be protected, but considering the rest of Orisa’s kit, that isn’t terribly difficult. She has her barrier to cover it and her hitbox is a good size to body-block enemies from attacking the drum, especially with Fortify to help her do so. The only good options there are to destroy the Supercharger are to flank or to get in close… neither of which are great ideas when the entire enemy team is dealing 150% of their normal damage output.

So… Valkyrie is totally outclassed in both the healing and damage amplification categories by other ultimates. Not only does the ability not have anything unique to its name, but it is simply worse in every category than its ultimate counterparts.

Valkyrie is really just a basic ability. Compare its impact to that of other supports’ basic abilities and that becomes clear:

Amp It Up (healing aura): 46.8 health/second to all allies within 10 meters of Lucio. Lucio can shoot while this ability is active.

Biotic Grenade: An instant 100 health when used on allies, along with a lingering healing amplification. When used on enemies, it deals 60 damage and leaves a lingering status effect that negates all healing received by those affected. Fire-and-forget mechanics. 4 meter blast radius.

Orb of Discord: Increases the damage received by one enemy target by 30%. Fire-and-forget mechanics, allowing Zenyatta to both deal damage and heal while his Discord Orb is active. (Virtually) Endless duration and can be retargeted at will when provided line of sight and a 30 meter proximity. 3-second decay time when target leaves range and/or vision.

Give Valkyrie a 3 second duration and slap a 12 second cooldown on it (beginning after the duration ends), and you have a nice basic ability.

But that’s not what the developers wanted. Instead, for reasons never provided, they wanted to take the pile of dung that they scrapped in the alpha stages of the game (citation ) and slap it into the game as Mercy’s ultimate. How did they do this?

They extended its duration 20 seconds.

Of course, probably seeing that the ability was still flaming garbage, they decided to add a few other bonuses to it. They added a bunch of buffs to Mercy’s pistol (most of which were removed before going live), and they added the potential to get four uses of Resurrect out of Valkyrie (rez, valk, rez, wait, rez, wait, rez). This time they were successful in making Valkyrie worthy of being an ultimate, because they added an ultimate (Resurrect) to a basic ability (Valkyrie). A basic ability in addition to an ultimate nets an ultimate ability.

Now the developers had a different problem. Mercy had two ultimates: Resurrect and Valkyrie… Or to be more direct about it, Resurrect and then more Resurrect. As you probably already know, Valkyrie was nerfed repeatedly. Resurrect was slowly withdrawn from the sack of garbage that was sacked and then unsacked, eventually rendering the sack of garbage to be a sack of nothing but garbage.

When Resurrect was pulled out Valkyrie, so was the ultimate in Valkyrie. Now we’re just left with a basic ability that lasts fifteen seconds on Q, while Mercy’s real ultimate is on her E.

Configuration: Spectator:

Consider the risk and reward for playing at different proximities from the fight for most heroes. Generally, the closer a hero is to the fight, the more impact they have; targets are bigger, and more enemies are visible. Projectile speed, spread, damage falloff, and limited range on abilities become less of an issue as a hero gets closer to the fight. The closer a hero is to the fight, the more they have to shoot at/heal/protect. By the same token, being closer to the fight also means greater risk, as the player becomes a bigger target for the enemy.

With the exception of a few specific heroes (Widowmaker) the risk and reward scale at about the same rate with proximity to the fight.

And then there’s Valkyrie.

The risk still scales with Mercy’s proximity to the fight while using Valkyrie; the closer Mercy is to the fight, the bigger of a target she is.

The reward does not scale with Mercy’s proximity to the fight while in Valkyrie; her team is receiving the same 60 (or 50, whatever) health/second regardless as to how close Mercy is.

As Mercy gets closer to her team while in Valkyrie, the risk increases. The reward is flatlined. This then prompts the question: Why would any Mercy with even the slightest hint of common sense want to be anywhere near the fight?

Trick question. They wouldn’t. The reason to get in close in the first place is to maximize reward. If that reward vanishes and the heightened risk stays, then the obvious choice is to minimize that risk by staying as far away as possible.

On top of this, Mercy has free flight with an omnidirectional movement speed of 9 meters/second and a 30 meter beam range. Not only does the Mercy have the incentive to be as far from the fight as possible, but they also have the tools to do so with ease.

The result? The best way to play Mercy while using Valkyrie is to hide in the skybox for fifteen seconds while sitting 29 meters from the beam target. This poses very little risk and sacrifices no reward.

This would be fine if Mercy had something to do while floating halfway across the map from the fight, but Valkyrie more than takes care of that. All of the skills and nuances of Mercy’s base kit that keep the player active and engaged? Yeah, those are thrown out the window.

Healing prioritization? AoE beams remove the need for that.

Damage boost utilization? AoE beams also negate the need for that.

Positioning? There aren’t really any threats to evade in the skybox, and you are already in the best position you are going to be in for the duration of the ability.

GA discipline? You’re still in the skybox and you have free flight, remember?

Awareness? There isn’t much of a need to pay close attention to the fight. It’s not like you would get any real benefit from doing so. Skybox and AoE beams are still a thing.

Consequently, Valkyrie treats the Mercy less like a player, and more like a game object; like a construct. It doesn’t give the player anything to do. Instead, it does everything for the player.

Are you 29 meters from the fight and holding down LMB/RMB? Congratulations! You have reached maximum capacity. That is all you will be doing for the next 14 seconds.

Naturally, an ultimate that is a borderline AFK button doesn’t feel good to use. Whereas most ultimates offer a unique change in playstyle that still demands player activity (Dragonblade, Tactical Visor), offer a brief burst of power (Earthshatter, Rocket Barrage), or leave the hero’s playstyle unchanged (Supercharger, Photon Barrier), Valkyrie transforms the player into a glorified spectator that applies flat bonuses to their team. From the player’s perspective, they aren’t helping their team; they are idle. Instead, Valkyrie is doing all of the work.

And this is a failure in game design. The player and their character’s kit are not merging as one. The player can’t take ownership for the ability and say that they helped their team; they didn’t put any effort into doing it. It was just given to them.

Participation awards and idle-execution abilities isolate the player from their character. It changes the perception from “I did this” to “This was given to me”. The player doesn’t take ownership for the actions that were supposedly theirs, and thus, they don’t feel heroic. Instead, they feel like a sidekick or a tool used to let others take the glory.

It gets worse. Not only is Valkyrie a glorified spectator with an absurdly low skill ceiling, but it isn’t powerful enough to contest other ultimates or even basic focus fire. Valkyrie may have the potential to heal at a combined rate of 300 health/second, but that healing rate is spread out evenly across 5 allies… all of whom either don’t really need it, or need more than 60 health/second to survive. As a result, most of that healing isn’t helpful, resulting in Valkyrie having a nearly identical effect on the fight as a Mercy playing at high capacity without Valkyrie. Hence the “easy-mode” stigma on the ability.

Because of Valkyrie’s inability to sustain a team, not only does the Mercy player feel idle, but they also feel utterly helpless as they watch their team get mowed down/blown up/frozen/knocked down/cut apart.

And this is the biggest problem with Valkyrie. No hero, no ability, no ultimate, should ever leave the player feeling helpless or useless. That is perhaps the worst thing that could ever happen to a playable character, and doesn’t scream anything other than developer incompetence. It contradicts the very point of active videogames in the first place: To empower the player.

Although I guess I should commend Valkyrie for what it is good at. Despite its shortcomings in impact, player engagement, and skill limitations, it is perhaps the most flexible ability in the game. No other ability in the game offers all of these options midfight:

Showing the world how much you like the color blue by leaving a weight on Mercy’s alternate fire the entire time.

If you are a strange person, showing the world how much you like the color yellow by leaving a weight on Mercy’s primary fire the entire time.

Casually shooting down the enemy Pharah.

Inspecting the ceiling textures.

Fetching a drink from the refrigerator.

Drinking some of that drink you pulled out of the refrigerator.

Checking your social media (or the Overwatch Forums!).

Petting your cat.

Petting your dog.

Feeding your pet fish.

Using a laser pointer to drive your cat nuts.

Working on homework.

Eating a sandwich.

Looking up cat gifs.

Reading this entire list.

And my personal favorite: Using Valkyrie to fly back to the fight after respawning.

Brawl-2310 · September 17, 2018, 1:35pm

You are not wrong (That’s why i used the headshot Dmg from 76). But you ignore the bigger picture. DPSs need aiming skills to maximise their Dmg output, but that’s it. All supports not only need good aim to be played well, they also need a hell of a lot of game senses which non of the DPSs needs. They need to take care of all 12 players in one match while DPSs focuse is on max 6-7 (including themself). The amount of stuff a DPS has to think about is not comparable with what sups need to take care of.

The game was originally built around teamplay and not just DPSs as it is now (Teamplay still beats DPSs, but it’s way harder now).
Also, yet again, what you are saying is the same with DPSs.
The Dmg they can do is just as much caped as the healing from sups, but sups can still, if played well, out play the DPS. Even with caped healing.
Using the enemy against hinself is way harder than just using your own resources. Non physical skills always beat physical skills, that’s just how things are.