Where has the skill in supports gone?


#5

I think that’s why Moira and Brig were added. They’re more entertaining to watch than Mercy holding down M1 while bunny hopping


#6

Lol no, both her skill ceiling and skill floor have been severely lowered.


#7

No one asked for the lucio wallride change, and most lucio’s were against it. So much so that we got one of the few reverts to a patch while it was still in ptr. And zenyatta takes more skill than most characters.


#8

Flying in and pressing Q was harder than knowing when and how to pull off a casted rez and how to best use the 15-second Swiss Army Knife of an ult that is Valkyrie? She also has extra mobility options with her “Mercy hop” and slingshot abilities. Nothing about 1.0 was more involved or had as much room for skill as 2.0 does.


#9

Theres no real point in adding additional skill to healers besides from an entertainment aspect given that healing won’t ever scale with skill as DPS does. It just makes it harder for the sake of being harder.


#10

your argument as already been debunked 3-4 times already in this thread.


#11

My wall riding gets messed up more often now than before they changed it so I really don’t like the change. I get they put it in to attract more players to him but it still messed him up some.


#12

Right? they said it would make it more consistent but the only consistent thing about it is that it is inconsistent. Frog boi attracted enough people with his sheer meme power and sick beats.


#13

Nothing like going for a jump to another place and then realizing that due to the change you are now quickly in a spot that won’t let you make the jump like you used to be able to do. I ran into this in Hollywood, Eichenwalde and one other that I can’t think of right now but I ended up in spots that I wouldn’t have nothing like suddenly going through a doorway because I held on a half second to long and then getting stuck in a hallway trapped by the enemy.


#14

That thread is just a list of somebody’s opinions. It doesn’t debunk anything. Adding more tools and ways to use them can only increase both skill cap and skill floor.

Also, mass rez was also the most low-effort ability ever. It could only be used in one situation, which is when people on her team were dead (meaning Mercy didn’t keep them alive). Mercy didn’t even have to worry about saving it for the next fight in most cases because it took an average of 45 seconds to charge, even for bad Mercy players.

I’d rather you use your own arguments rather than post somebody else’s.


#15

An opinion can’t be debunked…


#16

If the opinion is based off of false information it can indeed be debunked. Just a general statement.


#17

Actually Mercy’s Bunny hop bug was a result of her rework being introduced onto PTR and her having zero air resistance for a time, allowing you to shift cancel and then hold space for a full momentum boost. This was many months before the movement patch.

Not quite. The bug was fixed in the October Halloween event update, and a few days later they added in an official Bunny Hop feature whereby pressing/holding Spacebar at any point during GA allows you to bunnyhop, and there is also a superjump feature via holding crouch/shift at the same time and using bunnyhop to gain immense vertical height.


#18

Well designed healers benefit from skill in other ways. Like Lucio does a lot more damage if you have good aim.


#19

An opinion can be factually incorrect.

Goes to show you’ve haven’t actually read the thread.


#20

The great thing for Lucio’s shots is that they can do a lot of damage if they connect but they are also a great area denial attack, meaning you spam an area and it deters people from going into it as quickly.


#21

I think most supports are in a really good spot in terms of skill requirement.
Ana feels really good if you learn to play her well and is also fairly well balanced.
Moira also is not that easy, but also not too difficult. She might need a small buff, but other than that she is still fine.
Brigitte is a bit unbalanced, but in my opinion not as easy to play as everyone says.
Zen is just as good as always and needs a lot of skill to play well.
Lucio, while you are right, is also not as easy to play (In my opinion).
The only exception in that is Mercy which needs almost nothing, but one brain cell to be played well. Even if you play her well she still feels like “That’s not enough…”.

You see… Supports will always get the short end of the stick, because they are the heroes which define the Meta at the end of the day.
But i agree with you that the way how Blizzard (or better said Team 4) is handling all supports is just wrong.

They should try to make all viable and fun to play with, as and against. And not that “Now you get the big sword, the other guy had it way to long. We give him a wood stick in the in the meantime.”.

No… You are on a really wrong path if you think that.
E res is solely because of the CD far less skillful than Mass Res. On top of that comes the very situational use of it which always boils down to “Is it save or not?” and nothing more.
Valkyrie is nothing but an easy mode for her base kit. The best description of it is still “Easy mode, afk, pro simulator”.
It can be used in any situation without any thinking and is just the best get out of jail card in the game… nothing more.
About the movement, ignoring Valkyrie, you are not that wrong, but also not right. Yes it is a bit more complex now, but good Mercy player’s already used that small speed boost/rubberband thing back then with Mercy 1.x. Yes it already existed back then, but it was not as strong and way harder to use well.
It’s better now, but also easier to learn.

Mercy is the hero with the lowest skill ceiling and floor of all heroes, thanks to her rework. What you are saying is just wrong.


#22

That’s in terms of damage which will also be capped no matter how much skill is needed. In terms of healing it will never get past a certain point as well because thats how the game is balanced.


#23

That question is answered in the post Sandity quoted. The answer is yes.

This is debunked in that post.

The variety of ways to use Resurrect was reduced to less than a fifth of what it used to be, and that’s looking at numerical values alone.

Not if the tool you add is brain-dead in nature, and actually detracts from the skills required in the hero’s base kit.
Stares at Valkyrie.

Objectively false.

Also objectively false.

A condition that is not limited to one situation, is it?

Because she probably couldn’t keep them alive.

This is also false. Of the handful of ultimates I compared it to at the time, resurrect charged slower on average than:

  • Tactical Visor.
  • DragonBlade.
  • Rocket Barrage.
  • Transcendence.
  • Nano-Boost.
  • Whole Hog.

HI! I’m now part of the conversation. Here are my arguments:


#24

Firstly, I’m not sure you know what objectively means. Having a difference of opinion on something does not make it objectively false.

Secondly, that thread is absolutely made up of opinions occasionally accompanied by cherry-picked stats that leave out the parts that DON’T support your position. For example, stating that mass rez took over five minutes to full charge when sitting still is meaningless without talking about how quickly she could charge it on a regular basis just by healing an average amount before, during, and after team fights. It was, in fact, one of the fastest-charging ults by far in average situations. Anecdotally, I played a lot of Mercy at GM level at the time and it was pretty rare that I didn’t have mass rez up for every single team fight.

Yes, mass rez was ONLY usable in one situation. That’s not variety.
People had to be dead or it did nothing and it was an instant cast ability with no line of sight requirements. Valkyrie is usable at any time and it’s effectiveness is determined ENTIRELY by the skill of the Mercy using it.

If you can’t find an interesting way to use a multi heal/damage beam with hyper-increased mobility and an unlimited ammo pistol all while literally flying to your advantage, that’s a you problem. That’s not a Mercy problem.