less cc more flankers? yeah that will make people play support
What flankers can do with supports that have better damage, utility, and survivability? Unless these called supports canât aim, e.g. healbots. You can shut down any dps as bap/ana/lucio if you have skill. Ah almost forgot about zen. Mercy can eanable her dps to dps diff any of those trying to solo your team. You donât need CC to deal with flankers, this concept is overrated and have been cheese way over the time. All you need is to have good mechanics and peel for your teammates if they struggle.
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sure you can with your abilites that have less than half the uptime of dps. stop looking at duels as hold m1, dps use abilities, supports cant because they have to hold them 9/10
That is not true, dps uptime is not better than supportâs. What can tracer do with her tickle damage against bap shift, for instance? She can either die or recall. If bap is bad, he can use immortality on top of that, then no existing flanker and even tank has chances to 1v1 him because that is 500 of effective hp basically. Ana playerâs model hitbox is so broken, and she has +100 from the nade. That way very tiny hitbox with 300 hp. The best tracer would have like 40% accuracy vs ana, and that is 80 damage to body and something like 120 with headshot accuracy of 10%. How much more time you even need? You need to use just one ability to beat the flanker, then you have another ability if they go back, then your 1st ability gets up, then you just hold this rotation which proceeds to having one of those abilities up for every 5-8 seconds. Shift+ immortal, nade + sleep vs what? Recall and deflect?
I can elaborate it the same for every support hero, because each of them has double defensive ability that can be also used as offense. When flankerâs kits are very straightforward.
Playing at mmr of 3300 and below, I can literally flank as support by myself and I will have more chances to kill anything compared to dps flankers. But my value as support is not just damage, but also healing, that is why you canât do it every time. But that is still a play.
This is genji goes into my widow and me Twitch
and this is me flanking, abusing no cooldown mobility, support btw
Twitch
And I have tons of this if youâd like to watch.
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tracer can use 9 blinks in the time for bap to use one shift, soldier can use 2 rockets in the time for 1 bio nade, tracer can use 2 recalls when bap can use 1 I field
dps have higher uptime this is empirical fact not sure what is confusing
More like ââregular meal or famineââ.
I see, 9 blinks. Lets count. She has 3, to get closer she would use at least 1. Using another 2 blinks and not killing you forcing her to reacall. While doing all of this she gets like 2 blinks back. She fought you for 6 seconds, she fought your shift and bad aim, because all you need is to hit 3 body bursts to kill tracer (even less), which takes you 1.5 second max. But you still hit her enough to force a recall. She came back after recall your support passive already kicked in and healed you on quarter, so if you left with like 50 hp you are now at 100 hp. Now, this tracer has to beat your 100 hp + 150 immortality, while your shift is almost back up. She has no recall, it is on 12 sec cooldown for now. Now imagine if you go to highground and shoot that tracer from the range. Even if she had 9 blinks for real, you still have much more. In reality, she would have 5 blinks at best and tickle damage against your 500 hp and infinite access to almost any highground.
Watch, those are 2 supports that will lose to your tracer.
This is broken Bap in a nutshell, fighting 2 dps, gets away abusing exo-boots. Then look where I am and what I do
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you do realize you get blinks back after using them right? goes in forces shift recalls out, goes in again with tank or other dps forces I field then cleans up kill its not rocket science
That is why I said
But tell me how can tracer live for these 6 seconds against bap 24 damage per bullet? Or you donât know blink pattern and range, or you canât turn around, or jump anywhere to break los? How is it even possible to kill that character unless he goes 1v6?
Oh, nvm, still donât die xD
Oh wait, I have better one from ow1
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OH MY GOD leave after he uses shift go back in when your cooldowns are up which they will be BEFORE his, thats literally what uptime means
Maybe Sombra and Reaper should get the extra movement speed of Tracer and Genji, since they are all supposed to be flankers.
I love playing Ashe but she feels much weaker in OW2 Mccree feels a lot better to play over her in that environment, imo I think she could use a reload speed buff to speed her up a bit
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mate it isnât bad aim to not hit every shot on a hypermobile unpredictable flanker. if you are expecting the players in the duel to have that good aim then the bap is already dead because the tracer oneclipped him through regen burst
Interesting. I was a little concerned about tracer becoming unviable hero bad after reading the âPlease give Tracer a buffâ thread. But if sheâs still considered good, then I shouldnât be too disappointed in how she is in OW2. Not to mention practically every heroes got nerfed in OW2 anyways, even baptisteâs effective range. So tracerâs nerf wasnât even a nerf but more of an adjustment for 5v5.
It is impossible to oneclip bap that can instantly retrieve half of his hp and has another button to cancel death. Tracer has pretty wide spread to even hit half of her clip in bapâs tiny head point-blank. And if we talk about perfect aim, then you need just one burst in tracerâs head, and melee damage. Bodyshots are nowhere near to perfect state of the aim to even discuss it. You better tell about aim imperfections to those who discuss widow existence in a bad way 
effective range of what? His falloff or damage numbers havenât changed. Tracer feels bad, she is still good in team environment, but really bad for solo-carrying which is needed in solo matchmaker. The same is happening with soldier. If your accuracy is less than 50% in ow2, then you are pretty much wasting air.
it isnât at all impossible to oneclip bap-tracer can still deal 400 damage in a clip, on a target with a large hitbox. But I suppose maybe we shouldnât be thinking about each player hitting all their shots, should we. it is easier to oneclip a bap than to land full headshots on a tracer, and lamp shouldnât be brought in, because youâd want to bait it first anyway before fully engaging
His fall-off range in OW1 is from 25 to 45 meters. He does the most damage within these 25 meter range.
In OW2, that starts from 20 meters now like mccree: Overwatch 2 - Patch Notes
Biotic Launcher
- Primary fire minimum falloff range reduced from 25 to 20 meters
Regenerative Burst
- Total healing increased from 75 to 100 health
So baptiste basically does support level of damage on top of the abysmal damage that mccree has in long range. Not sure where it ends, but itâs probably also 40 meters like mccree.
Combine that with the global hitscal fall-off revert, itâs going to turn baptiste into a short ranged hitscan dealer now I presume. Ashe and S76 on the other hand has fall-off range of 30 to 50 meters. So both of these heroes will easily be able to out range mccree and baptiste.
Well I donât agree with this change either. I donât want supports to turn into healers who just constantly heal themselves just to live while not having that much agency to hard carry the game. But it seems like restoring health is what the devs are going for in order to make supports less easy to kill like it was in the first beta when they had DPS speed boost passive and bap didnât have his regenerative burst buff.
I have missed that one, which moths was that patch note?
Well, we got used to it already, itâs been there for a long time (the revert)
Idk man, Iâve played both beta waves a lot and didnât feel like my Bap is weak or something, yes you 1v1 more compared to ow1, but most of these 1v1s are still in bapâs favor. I would rather get healing projectile speed buff instead, which is more reasonable. Any insta heals are bad for this game, the same as AoE healing, which was proven in time. And now we have JQ meta in contenders already, where this new âTankâ hero just shouts on a cooldown sitting in backline, enabling her tracer or genji or both dps in general to have 5s window to be unkillable going deep. It was the same when brig was giving +100-150 overhealth to tracer back in the days, it was impossible to fight her. Devs do the same mistakes all over again.
I think devs read casualâs comments way too much, those who donât play heroes on their full potential or even close to it. I play in low elo very often, and most of the time supports are the 1st cause for enemy team losses, and Tanks are 2nd place for that.
I agree that what bap needs right now is better form of healing first in order to make him more versatile healer. Since although Iâm not sure about OW2, but most of supportâs value in OW1 came from healing alone.
His projectile healing grenades being inconsistent in long range and the meta and/or 5v5 leading to the teams being split up more is making baptiste an inefficient main-healer compared to ana who can heal allies in long range instantly. Bap essentially went from an all rounder hero in OW1 to more of a niche hero in OW2 because of this 5v5 change.
Healing in general is too easy for a lot of the supports. So skill-based healing, like trying to land healing grenades on your pharah or genji who keeps double jumping brings virtually no value whatsoever.
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I agree, remove recallâs health restore