What's the point of Mercy?

[Justin-17714]

Two seconds of immortality and two seconds of Zarya focusing her fire on something else other than the team are hella useful.

not as usefull as trans which or sound barrier, which saves them, allows them to move, and heals them all at once.

Again, it doesn’t need to stay out forever, nor does the team need to stay cramped behind it forever. Just using it to make Rein unkillable for two seconds is all Baptiste needs, especially since he can save the IF for the moment Rein’s health goes below half.

That’s ON TOP of the protection he gets from a Zarya bubble.

I tell you what ill make you a bet.

Lets come back to this in stage 2 of OWL when baptiste is in the game, and see what the Goats meta is? I will publicly admit I was wrong about everything if that’s the case.

I cant explain much more from pro perspective, so ill just have to let you see on your own.

To be clear im saying he will change nothing in the goats meta

other metas idk how he could affect.

[Justin-17714]

my bad lol its hard to catch sarcasm and jokes via text.

[AkaiEngarde-1459]

I just realized I forgot to add the /s to the end of the post lol

[Succubus-11506]

not as usefull as trans which or sound barrier, which saves them, allows them to move, and heals them all at once.

Again, I don’t think he’d replace Lucio or Zenyatta, so that’s not really relevant.

I tell you what ill make you a bet.

I cant explain much more from pro perspective, so ill just have to let you see on your own.

To be clear im saying he will change nothing in the goats meta

other metas idk how he could affect.

I don’t know how much more clear I can be about this just being a theory. I don’t know if he’ll be factored in GOATS at all, but I can definitely see the potential.

[Triton-22473]

not as usefull as trans which or sound barrier, which saves them, allows them to move, and heals them all at once.

Isn’t an ult being stronger than an ability expected?

[RevertMercy-1819]

@Amaro-21901

First off, it wasn’t sololy reworked because it was unfun to play against. That was one of the multiple reason, and the biggest reason was that the devs saw a playstyle that they did not want.

Aka. “It was unfun to play against, so we changed it.” + the “hide and rez” controversy. Funnily enough, there is still no hard statistical evidence, 3 years later, that proves that this was actually happening in a large scale, outside of some few twitch streams and random youtube videos. My assumption is that it was used as a scapegoat to force changes on Mercy and her players. Mass Rez could have easily been tweaked. I don’t think it needed a complete rework.

@Amaro-21901

Second, how does one balance Mass Rez?

I have made a rework suggestion on doing just that, feel free to give it a look!

It's Time For A Rework | #ReworkMercy

Hello, I should preface this by saying that this is a thread in support of the #ReworkMercy movement. After seeing various other movements, with some being better than others (#deletebrig) in terms of their actual cause, I think it’s a great thing that people are coming together with a goal on making a hero better, and in a positive light, rather than on toxicity and making heroes that we hate worse, simply because we find them “unfun to play against”. This is an opinion thread, and it’s quite a…

@Amaro-21901

Putting anymore restrictions on something that was already useless without invulnerability will just make it even more useless

Completely disagree with that opinion sorry. Just because you think an ultimate is “useless” doesn’t deem said ultimate to be so. Mass Rez was quite useful, impactful, and rewarding to play in my opinion.

---

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls

[Oraclekiller-1754]

Jesus, I saw a Moira post saying that even mercy is better than her because she has “UTILITY wha” and mercy players complaining over here too

[Justin-17714]

Heres the issue with baptiste. who do you replace? Does he have potential abasofrigginlutely but the issue is who do you replace?

Brig has aura healing, damage, rally, and the potential to disrupt shatters and sound barriers.

Zen has damage, damage amp, and trans

Lucio has speed, sound barrier, and aura healing.

The most likely candidate, As you said, is Brig.

But if you take brig out of the comp, your entire team comp is decimated by dive.

that’s why brig is so essential, she makes it unkillable by dive.

You could argue that the IF could stop it, but tracer can get a full clip off before the animation of IF is done. at which point you’ve waisted a cooldown tracer is gone, and the enemy is focusing that field to finish you off.

The looming threat of brig is what makes Goats so powerful against dive. because if you run it, she counters it, and you have to swap all your heros, resetting all your ultimates, and putting yourself at a huge disadvantadge.

I really just don’t see where he could fit in to make the comp better. Could there be a variant with him? sure, but would it be better than the current variant? Doubt it.

EDIT: also theres ana who Completely counters the IF sure youll stay alive, but you cant heal in it, and you are only delaying your deaths and setting up for an easier kill for the enemy.

[Succubus-11506]

Moira and Mercy are both in a bad spot to be honest.

It’s kind of like Torb, Reaper, Symmetra, Bastion, and Soldier mains who can’t decide which of them have it worst right now.

[Megadodo-11847]

But that’s what she does now. She stops healing for 2 seconds whilst rezzing.

a very worthy tradeoff in my opinion.

Mercy gets back a dead comrade rather than healing someone 100HP

Also this ability is deemed so amazing that her basic healing is anaemic

If you are saying here that other abilities Mercy has are reduced in power to help balance out rez - I don’t agree. I believe rez is balanced within itself with all of the restrictions applied to it

and she basically has no Ult.

Mercy has a very powerful ult called Valkyrie.

Power aside, it is also one of the most versatile ults in the game

[Star-13860]

I was honestly happy we got another support, and Baptiste looks really fun, engaging and impactful. I also held my breath and hoped strongly that Mercy and Symmetra would receive some kind of buff on the ptr. Go figure Torb gets the buff that Symmetra also needs, and Mercy gets nothing after being considered a throw pick now, an accessory and an off-healer.

I completely lost interest in Overwatch after seeing Mercy having to sit in the gutter for possibly until the next hero release, so another three months. I’m already playing Overwatch less and less with each passing day, and I just came back after a four month break (when they last nerfed Mercy’s healing to 50 hps).

Playing Moira and Ana can be fun, but only for so long when you can’t play your favorite heroes unless you want to get flamed at and accused of throwing (Mercy and Symmetra). I don’t know why the devs are so strongly against Mercy being a viable main healer, especially after half a year. There’s absolutely no reason to pick her over Ana, Moira and now Baptiste unless they’re already present, and even then you’re giving up a valuable defensive support’s utility and ultimate.

Either revert Mercy’s healing to 60 hps, or increase Valkyrie’s main target to 100 hps, 50% damage boosted while everyone else receives 50 hps and 30% damage boosted… This way Mercy has some kind of impact and skill expression and she can turn the tide of a battle with a well executed and use of Valkyrie.

Let’s not forget Mercy is receiving an indirect nerf as well, with the changes to Damage Boost. Mercy will lose out on so many opportunities to damage boost (when D.Va ults, when Reinhardt launches his Firestrike unless you’re already damage boosting him to begin with, which shouldn’t be the case if there are other dps heroes present).

Mercy loses a lot of value with this ptr change, as she’ll be charging her allies’ ult and her own less often and she’ll miss many opportunities to damage boost. It’s bad enough she rarely ever has an opportunity to damage boost due to her low healing output.

[RevertMercy-1819]

But that’s what she does now. She stops healing for 2 seconds whilst rezzing.

Also this ability is deemed so amazing that her basic healing is anaemic and she basically has no Ult. So, in effect, her rez makes her a far worse healer, just like you’re complaining mass rez did.

Very well said, thank you.

---

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls

[Justin-17714]

Isn’t an ult being stronger than an ability expected?

im not saying this isn’t the case, im just saying that these tools are much more valuable than Baptiste IF. If IF was on say like an 8 second cooldown I could see him being good in goats, but other than that I don’t see the value compared to what the others have.

[Megadodo-11847]

Along with Soldier 20 damage per round. Guess what is being tested on ptr…

One is an ability removed entirely

One is a simple numerical change to an existing ability

These are not directly comparable

[Succubus-11506]

Brig has aura healing, damage, rally, and the potential to disrupt shatters and sound barriers.

But if you take brig out of the comp, your entire team comp is decimated by dive.

In my opinion…not really? What does Brig do that stops Dive now? DOATS, after all, is just Dive with Brig and Zarya instead of two DPS.

I think there are four things Brig would have the edge on Brigitte regarding:

1. More consistent healing and DPS, since she heals by DPSing.
2. Better peeling/disruption with Shield Bash.
3. A more impactful Ultimate.
4. No fear of her abilities or attacks being eaten by Matrix.

These four things are maybe (probably) enough to keep her in GOATS, but as I said, Baptiste’s utility is pretty insane.

[Justin-17714]

DOATS, after all, is just Dive with Brig and Zarya instead of two DPS.

which is only ever ran against triple or quad dps, which is a form of dive being countered again by a form of goats.

You seem to not be counting Ult economy in your equation.

GOATS has to change one hero to become DOATS and counter the Multi dps give comps being used against GOATS.

Dive has to change every hero to mirror goats putting them at a severe ult economy disadvantadge.

These four things are maybe (probably) enough to keep her in GOATS, but as I said, Baptiste’s utility is pretty insane.

I mean this is what ive been saying the entire time. ive just been explaining it indepth.

[Megadodo-11847]

Aka. “It was unfun to play against, so we changed it.” + the “hide and rez” controversy. Funnily enough, there is still no hard statistical evidence, 3 years later, that proves that this was actually happening in a large scale, outside of some few twitch streams and random youtube videos.

I feel that the fact that Blizzard acted to remove it - and very quickly, at that - serves as an indication on just how big a problem it was. In other words, it was a huge problem - a problem I too saw frequently in multiple tiers of play

Mass Rez was quite useful, impactful, and rewarding to play in my opinion.

I blush just remembering how very, very bad it was for the game as a whole

[Oraclekiller-1754]

Soldier got his damage back and he can put up his gun faster after running so maybe we can see some more soldiers out there again.
At these other characters are bad in higher ranks.
Reaper can be good if no one shoots him before he reaches your tank

[Justin-17714]

they removed Rez because they wanted to get rid of hide and rez as a playstyle more than anything, straight up sighting it as a reason in the dev update.

there is still no hard statistical evidence, 3 years later, that proves that this was actually happening in a large scale, outside of some few twitch streams and random youtube videos.

doesn’t matter.

They don’t want the playstyle to exist so long as mass rez is in the game, the playstyle exist. therefore it was removed.

there I solved the puzzle for you.

[Succubus-11506]

which is only ever ran against triple or quad dps, which is a form of dive being countered again by a form of goats.

Again, I don’t think Brigitte really counters Dive as well as she used to, but I guess we can’t tell until GOATS is dissolved.

You seem to not be counting Ult economy in your equation.

The ult economy of Dive vs GOATS isn’t really relevant to my point, though.