What really was wrong with mass Resurrect?


#231

I mean, that isn’t the only option. There’s staggering deaths, baiting out res, kill enemies when they are out of position, aim for the head :slight_smile: , anti nade.


#232

listen you can’t “bait out” rez…

Bad teamplay shouldn’t be a way to counter a ability in this game. It’s like saying to just let the Brig over extend and bam countered.

Same thing here.

You forgot the
Smile
4head


#233

Someone made a pretty good thread explaining why private profiles don’t really significantly effect the statistics.
Here it is:

No? I’m saying you, If you want to devalue Res, should just stagger your kills. It’s an effective way of ensuring that the Mercy won’t be able to get numerical value out of her ult.


#234

The encouragement had to do with simply getting a 5 man Res and possibly winning the game because of it. SR wasn’t the biggest factor, it was the mere fact that Mercy’s could get away with letting their team die if they played their cards right.


#235

Personally, I never really considered sites like Overbuff to be accurate anyway, but private profiles takes less explaining. I’ll still have a look at that thread though


#236

Weird. 5 man resses never encouraged me to hide. With that in mind, it just seems like a select few who actually thought numerical value meant everything when ulting. Also, would this rework suggestion involving mass Resurrect be any good?


#237

Just because you didn’t actively seek out the 5-man’s doesn’t necessarily mean that other people didn’t look at it as a winning strategy, and blame their Mercy for the entire loss when they didn’t do it, regardless of how well Mercy played beforehand.

(And before it’s brought up that “oh only bad mercy’s did that”, the same applied to high ranks as well, it wasn’t just a bronze problem)

I like the Res idea, but I’d say either pick between the Ult’s Burst heal or the new E. Both might be a little much.


#238

If you move her away from the team and she presses Q, she still might get 2-3 players.

There’s your number advantage.

And the same can’t be said about your team?

Considering that an ultimate or two can wipe a fresh, fully-mobile team, I don’t think it’s hard to wipe a somewhat-fresh and possibly-incomplete, immobile team.

Reinhardt has been revived.

The instant at which Reinhardt is able to activate abilities again is the same instant he is able to take damage. The player could be holding RMB down after being Resurrected, and Reinhardt still won’t have his shield up before he starts taking damage simply because there is a delay between button press and barrier expansion/activation.

That window is the window in which the Biotic Grenade hits. Transcendence doesn’t have that window; the team is never disabled to begin with.

That’s like saying Transcendence isn’t affected by burst damage/Bio-nades because Zenyatta’s ability to channel the ultimate isn’t impeded. It’s technically correct, but it doesn’t actually further your argument. The meaning is the same either way.

How about this: The value of Resurrect could be negated using the very same tactics used to negate the value of Transcendence.

Better?

Except it does, as Resurrect doesn’t maintain momentum, it doesn’t ensure a team’s survival for the next 6 seconds, and it doesn’t throw advantages at the enemy team.

  • Death staggering.
  • Target Prioritization.
  • Ultimate economy.

The numerical value of something is meaningless if it doesn’t actually result in any value.

And Transcendence/Sound Barrier extend your chance of fighting. The end result is the same.

Hold up. Where is Mercy prior to the Resurrection? More specifically, is she participating in the fight?

Either way, if the team playing against Mercy (which I will call Team 1) made a misplay here if they expended 2 ultimates while the enemy expended none.

If Mercy is participating in the fight, why did Team 1 miss the highest-priority target in the game with both of those ultimates? If Mercy is not participating in the fight, why on Earth is Team 1 expending 2 ultimates in the first place?

If we exclude the ultimate charge gained from killing X number of players.

Why are they expending two ultimates to kill a team comprised of sitting ducks?

Again, excluding the ultimate charge gained from killing Y number of players.

Private profiles didn’t exist at the time that set of data was recorded that was back in mid-2017.

She is the weaker healer. That is known to be the case.

She is not the weaker of the two at healing. That is also known to be the case, and has been the case since… as long as I can remember.

But you don’t need to be the best at healing to be the best healer, do you?


#239

I mean, I only said bad players because it’s hard to tell who actually is good in GM as a Mercy main since those using “Hide n Res” were able to abuse the SR system and climb like crazy.

I think it’s pretty balanced. She now has decent mid-fight utility and has a ult that doesn’t require teammates death. I’d say that’s a win/win.


#240

I mean, either way there were actual GM players who weren’t Mercy mains blaming Mercy for the loss because they didn’t hide. The issue went beyond just the Mercy’s opinion.

I mean, yea… It’s an obvious win for Mercy. My concern is if it’s too much of a win.

Simple question:
If Mercy was balanced with Res on ult before, what would giving her a ton of added utility on top of that do? Probably make her OP. Like I said, I’d be fine with either/or, especially with the nerfs in place to bring Res down a notch, but I hesitate to say just throw both in at once and see what happens.


#241

I blame xQc and a handful of anti-Mercy streamers for that.

Because Titanium’s mass Resurrect has a lot of drawbacks in comparison to the previous mass Resurrect. Also, before she didn’t have any utility. Remember! Resurrect wasn’t on E and Titanium’s suggestion puts it back on Q. That’s a net decrease in utility already.


#242

The thing that was wrong about mass resurrect was its existence


#243

It’s Spam
This post is an advertisement, or vandalism. It is not useful or relevant to the current topic.


#244

Another form of spam is mercy threads


#245

I think mass ress would of been fine, if rez cast time to rez someone right now was on massive rez, it would deny the hide because it makes her vulnerable to anything and it would need good counterplay and protection from her team.

Just my idea though.


#246

Sorry but feedback for a hero is always going to be useful. :stuck_out_tongue:


#247

“/s” means sarcasm btw…
tho if you think res ain’t worth much, lmfao, dude, it’s rly good, it’s just brainless to pull off and completely dependent on your team [meaning if they cover you, you’re good, if not, well, better luck next time]
dmg boost is also waaaay underrated, tho i still prefer Zen for that , but for some team comps, shes still better cause he can’t follow.

i do agree she feels horrid to play, like, i have 400+h on her, i only didn’t play her in S1 cause i got the game during S2.
still, i think it’s nice to see other healers get playtime for a change…tho i do hope they make her more fun sometime in the future but, honestly, at this point, i think there are other heroes that are in far worse state then her. she still has her spot.


#248

I’m getting a little tired of repeating myself here.

I would be fine with one of the bonus’s being added because of the additional drawbacks. I just don’t want to throw too much onto the plate at once.


#249

Agreed with the rest, but the majority of the time, people die in groups, where the team fight ended. With the range of Mercy, it’s a little more difficult to say in-game than in the forums. It really is, once you’ve lost the majority of your ults, even with the consumption / output of ults at low.

It can single handedly return a fight back to the other side, where resources were put it. Ever played Dead By Daylight? A perk called Decisive Strike let’s you get away from the killer on his shoulders for what? DOING THEIR OBJECTIVE. You don’t penalize a well coordinated team with ults for doing their objective.

Which is why Mass Rez would have been fixed with a Cast Time. It would remove every problem with it, even the hide and seek factor and it would give the enemies a chance to finish it off. If she got the 6 man off, then that’s their problem for poor communication.

But when you can’t punish someone from just clicking a button for doing their objective is incorrect. I agree though on the rest.


#250

That’s before the ult. Mercy can prevent this by saving Rez.

Sure, it’s doable, with more ults. If you choose not to use more ults, then you run the risk of losing, thus wasting the original ult(s)

I think if an Ana hits this from in front of the shield, she deserves to get the anti-off. And if she was able to flank to get it off and not feed, then she deserves to get it off. Rez =/= “win the fight when you would have lost it”.

No, because a bio-nade directly prevents Zen from healing his team, but Mercy still rezzes her team.

She still gets full value out of her ult, whereas Zen’s ult (designed to prevent death from sustained damage) loses its value.

Burst damage negates the value of Trans. Bio-nades negate Trans itself. Very different things.

Nor does it have to

Yeah, none of these actually reduce the effectiveness of Rez.

What you do with the advantage Rez gives you isn’t Rez’s problem.

Yes, but if you Rez 5 people, then you have extended the fight. If you pop Trans or SB which is immediately countered by a nade or an EMP etc, then you have not extended the fight, but you still lose the ult.

Expending ults to win a fight when the other team doesn’t isn’t necessarily a misplay. Dumping half of your ults and getting none is definitely a misplay, but if a fight is even or barely one-sided, then ults can viably be used.

It’s very easy to create play-perfect scenarios where either of these options are ridiculous, but my post is solely going off my games. In real games, stuff can happen. Mercy’s Widow can get a pick early one, or an enemy might miss an important ability or it may get countered. Sometimes people just get carried away and use ults inefficiently. So, although the ults status and positions etc are entirely hypothetical, they’re based on real games. The point is, that we’re ultimately comparing Rez to other Support ults. Not to mention that my original post was in reply to the OP who assumed that Rez was used in response to an Ult being used.

This would be very little if 2 ults were used. There wouldn’t be much damage left to do with their standard kit.

I don’t know where this idea of sitting ducks comes from. The Rezzed team are allowed to use abilities once the Rez is complete.

This is a slightly different point to the last one that was similar, so this actually has more weight. Unlike last time, my mention of “risk” assumes that no ults are used after Rez, so all killing done is done with base kit - which grants ult charge. However Team 1 uses 1-2 ults, Team 2 uses Rez. If Team 1 then wins then happy days. Life is good. But if they lose (which they may) they wasted ults. Not only did they waste ults, but more of them died than the enemy team, so the enemy got more ult charge from the fight. Thus, Team 1 is at an ult disadvantage. And if Team 1 commits another ult and wins, then some of the damage done will not grant ult charge, and you’re not going to fully charge 3 ults from one fight.

I did mention, although not to you, that I wasn’t 100% sold on them in the first place, since they were almost always wrong about my stats, so I can’t trust them being right for anyone else.

No, you don’t. Because currently, with so much burst, the “best healer” is the one than can keep the enemy alive the longest through incoming damage. My point was statistics require context - real game application.