What really was wrong with mass Resurrect?


#206

Rocket Barrage fires 30 rockets/second, each dealing 40 damage. If you’re a 200 HP hero in the middle of that, you’re dead in one sixth of a second.

Self-Destruct has once instance of damage, dealing up to 1000 damage at the epicenter of the blast.

Rip-Tire deals 400 AoE damage in a single instance.

Meteor Strike deals 300 damage at the epicenter of the blast in a single instance.


#207

Using an ultimate to wipe the ressed teammates is what I’d call negating the impacts of Resurrect and is therefore a counter in my eyes. Sorry, you can’t see that.

  • Resurrect on E is broken in so many different ways and it’s existence forces Mercy to be either too overpowered or too underpowered.

  • Why would a Mercy let her team die? A Mercy sustains her team until she can no longer do so. At that point, you use your ultimate.

GreyFalcon showed me them. Gotta ask him. I will try to find it though.

You don’t need to engage into the fight though. Her extended beams and insane 3D movement makes it so you can sit as far as possible from the fight and still do something. Also, it’s the best way to stay alive with the ultimate.

What would your definition of a counter be?

Is that why we dealt with reworked Mercy for a year? Is that why feedback was ignored for so long and the responses we got were, “she’s fine cuz pickrates”?

Feedback, yes. Definitely not feelings though. They could care less about how we feel.

Is this why people have started to say that the game is dead?

Stagger deaths, bait our res, or save ultimates for the ressed team. GG.

Actually, the encouragement to do so was removed on month before the rework. If they had removed/fixed it earlier, it definitely would’ve died.

False.

Think to yourself, “should I really just suicide? Or should I jump onto point and try to stall and get picks and if I die, yay, Mercy’s got my back. The amount of people misinterpreting those words isn’t honestly shocking.

Counters itself and would’ve died if the SR system was fixed earlier.

What ultimate isn’t disheartening to play against when successfully pulled of? Also, she got replaced with something even more disheartening.

Give her a cast time. Counterplay was pretty straightfoward.

I can relate.


#208

Mass rez doesn’t have the same requirements for timing/positioning that Sound Barrier and Trans would. They’re harder to utilize effectively by a mile and then some. All Mercy has to do is fly to a bunch of long-dead corpses.

Mass rez charges faster than Trans/Sound Barrier

The effects of Mass rez last longer than Trans/Sound Barrier (effectively permanent)

Mass rez doesn’t have the potential cost-effective counters that Trans and Sound Barrier do.

All of that aside, it seems like Blizz intends to keep main healers away from strong defensive counter-ults. So these threads amount to little more than spam.


#209

Please explain further.

  • If you are low on health, especially as tank, yeah sometimes. Rez was technically a burst heal, but you have to die first.
  • If you already have dead allies at point, very likely. There is a timer on their corpse, and if you stay alive too long, it expires. This is what I am asking, how is this ever not the case with mass rez?

(All this assuming the Mercy is playing perfectly and no enemy can kill her - otherwise she is likelier and likelier to be killed as the fight drags on. But let’s say that’s the intended challenge)


#210

Then these “Anti Brig” people better shut up and adapt.
Y’all should have “Adapted” to Mass res in the first place if we’re goin this route!


#211

A Mercy sustains her team until she can no longer do so. A Mercy does not intentionally let her team die as that already devalues Resurrect. You could’ve saved them and pulled of a tempo res which is always going to be better than aiming for a big res.

Eh… no? You try to stay alive as much as possible.

Stay alive and the Mercy will get a tempo res which is way better than a multi res and is much more likely to win the fight.

Also, would this rework suggestion be any good and would you accept mass Resurrect coming back if it was brought back as this:


#212

You tempo res. The Roadhog that died 6 seconds ago isn’t in it, because his corpse expired in the last second as your 30hp Reinhardt was standing in a corner with his shield up.
Next time you tempo res earlier. The Reinhardt in the corner cannot be saved even by your healing beam, and he dies right afterwards.
If you say neither of these things ever happened to you, I don’t believe you.

I like this suggestion, good on whoever made it.


#213

Obviously there are going to be cases where it won’t be as effective >_<. That being said, usually, it is way better than letting your team die, then res en masse.

Titanium is god.


#214

That’s incorrect.

And you just stated why.

In Mercy’s case, you at least had to evade the ultimates in the first place to get used out of Resurrect. Zenyatta? You literally want to get caught in that Graviton Surge so you can press Q among your entire team.

Taking that a step further to further dismantle your assertions…

The effects being the circumvention of a respawn delay and location. It’s theoretically permanent, but finite.

It’s theoretically permanent in the same way that healing is theoretically permanent. If you top an ally off, are they really going to stay that way for the rest of the game?

Except it does.

It charged faster than Sound barrier, but slower than Transcendence.

June 28th, 2017:

"Edit: Some people were complaining that the above data is too theoretical. In that case, let’s pull up some averages. To factor in eliminations with ultimates, I will subtract 200 damage in charge per kill. All data is pulled from Overbuff, specifically the Competitive statistics. CR = conversion ratio.

Mercy:
520 damage = 520 charge.
11905 healing = 9524 charge (4/5 CR).
593 damage amplified = 2569.67 damage done by boosted target = 1927.25 charge (3/4 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 14971.25.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.21 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Soldier:76:
16085 damage = 16085 charge.
1972 healing = 1972 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1092 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 19965.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.62 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Genji:
13545 damage = 13545 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1304 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15241.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.16 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Tracer:
13135 damage = 13135 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-804 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15331.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 13.63 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Pharah:
16523 damage = 16523 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1140 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 18383.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.94 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Winston:
9887 damage = 9887 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-604 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 12283
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.93 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Zarya:
12140 damage = 12140 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1098 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 14042.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 7.49 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Roadhog
14842 damage = 14842 charge.
3823 healing = 3823 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-798 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 20867.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.43 ultimates in 10 minutes.

For !@#$s and giggles, let’s calculate the charge rate of the other support ultimates.

Zenyatta:
9621 damage = 9621 charge.
7350 healing - 2172.73 Transcendence healing = 5177.27 non-ult healing = 6834.00 charge (33/25 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 19455.00.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.38 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Lucio:
7026 damage = 7026 charge.
10322 healing = 13074.43 charge (19/15 CR).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 23100.53.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.80 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Ana:
3668 damage = 3668 charge.
8791 healing = 8791 charge (I am assuming the CR is 1/1, as it is not otherwise specified).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 15459.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.37 ultimates in 10 minutes."

August 12th, 2017:

"Don’t like arguments based off of theoretical numbers? Have some averages. All data is pulled from Overbuff, specifically the Competitive statistics. To factor in eliminations with ultimates, I will subtract 200 damage in charge per kill. Everything is measured in average/10 minutes, any damage factored in is hero damage, and CR = conversion ratio.

Mercy:
521 damage = 521 charge.
11912 healing = 9529.6 charge (4/5 CR).
542 damage amplified = 2348.67 damage done by boosted target = 1761.50 charge (3/4 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 14812.1.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.12 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Soldier:76:
15804 damage = 15804 charge.
2018 healing = 2018 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1094 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 19728.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.51 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Genji:
13316 damage = 13316 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1290 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15026.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.02 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Tracer:
12875 damage = 12875 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-756 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15119.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 13.44 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Pharah:
16241 damage = 16241 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1106 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 18135.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.80 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Winston:
9915 damage = 9915 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-598 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 12317
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.96 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Zarya:
11973 damage = 11973 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1082 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 13891.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 7.41 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Roadhog
14041 damage = 14041 charge.
3942 healing = 3942 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-780 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 20203.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.10 ultimates in 10 minutes.

For sh*ts and giggles, let’s calculate the charge rate of the other healer ultimates.

Zenyatta:
9379 damage = 9379 charge.
7390 healing - 2158.60 Transcendence healing = 5231.40 non-ult healing = 6905.45 charge (33/25 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 19284.45.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.29 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Lucio:
6988 damage = 6988 charge.
10519 healing = 13324.07 charge (19/15 CR).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 23312.07.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.88 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Ana:
3629 damage = 3629 charge.
8789 healing = 8789 charge (I am assuming the CR is 1/1, as it is not otherwise specified).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 15418.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.34 ultimates in 10 minutes."

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757356425
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758647473

I wonder which is easier to counter:

  • An ultimate that turns the entire team into tanks for the next few seconds, in most cases more than tripling a team’s collective health pool, adding to the team’s sustained momentum and offering no advantages to the enemy team?
  • An ultimate that makes a team effectively immortal for 6 seconds save for a few specific attacks and abilities, adding to the team’s sustained momentum and offering no advantages to the enemy team?
  • An ultimate that brings the team back to life after all momentum has been lost and granting the enemy team both the positioning advantage and the first shot?

Not exactly a hard decision. Resurrect was easy to counter for those who actually tried to counter it; the problem is that too many people didn’t bother trying.

There’s a reason no version of Mercy 1.x ever broke past D-tier.


#215

"Ignoring all what I said "

Try again.


#216

ignores what he said

Hmm…


#217

Honestly, just the invulnerability was what was wrong with it. All they had to do was scrap it or turn it into reduced damage, but no. Here we are a year later with people foaming at the mouth.


#218

She could Resurrect behind walls and objects, which was always insane to me. If they were to ever bring it back I want a LoS check when she uses it, Resurrecting a team on top of the Nepal village roof point for example was a nightmare.


#219

Sorry you are blind mate but killing a Rabid dog doesnt mean you defeated the sickness. Its literally not the same. Words are in the dictionary, sorry you are using them in your particular own way.

You said its not an engaging ultimate, and thats false, i proved that. The rest is you beating around the bush. If you believe that an ultimate that gives you FLIGHT and REGEN is not engaging, you must believe Bastion is a flanker.

The one we all use in the world? Something that COUNTERS something when that something is used and prevents or blocks its full effect?
Are you serious right now? LOL

Clearly only mercy mains are the only ones yeah, they did 30 gazillion updates for Bastion, Reaper, Torb yep … clearly Mercy is the one they never touch, LOL again.

Yeah people that cant adapt mostly.

You cant adapt to things that have no counters, its like asking an elephant to fly.
Please think before writing, its bad.


#220

Except there were and are counters (respectively) to v1.0 Mercy and Brig.

Ult economy for Mercy, rather than ult dumping
And Junkrat/Pharah for Brig, instead of the typical support counters.

Sorry, babydoll. You’re the one not thinkin’ here.


#221

i just wanna say, with the pre-nerfed new mercy, there was a time where fights would never end.
literally for 2/5 minutes into overtime and an almost unkillable mercy that rezes 2 of the enemy and heals them from above without beign threatend.

at least with old mercy rez, you could do a single dps ult and get changes of rekilling any rezzed enemies and gain the upperhand


#222

Great, another one that doesnt know the meaning of the words they are writing. Good stuff.

Not a counter … dear god.

Who the actual F did mention Brig? here is a clue : Not me

You dont know the meaning of “counter” and you are answering me like i said something about Brig ? Yeah clearly i am the one.

Trolling 3/10. Neeeext


#223

Please elaborate, 'cause by the sound of it you don’t really sound too sure of the definition either.

Then lemme put t this way~ DPS counter her. Got an offensive ult? You can destroy the team again as long as you didn’t blow it in the first fight.

You DID mention not having counters though, which is a common Anti-Brig argument. So, I don’t really care that you didn’t ask for it out front, you got it.

You just repeated yourself.

Is this what it’s like in Diamond? 'Cause I’ll stay in Plat if it is, I don’t need to climb to this.


#224

Being dead in one sixth of a second or in a single instance of damage seems pretty instant to me.


#225

Good trick. “Oh i dont know the meaning of this, please tell me so im sure that you know”.
J

Yeah man, that doesnt “un-res” or give you a skill to “consume corpse” so Mercy cant re… you know what, its pointless.

Great way to win an argument. You make up things the other person said and you “counter” them. Good job!

You still dont know what a counter is and reverse rank shaming is one of the saddest things ive seen this month. GG.