Must be a Hanzo main.
Literally nobody thinks the hero is remotely balanced except people who play him.
He has bloated mobility, bloated damage, and no defined role.
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This is one of the most important things to remember. Using bubble too early is so often the difference between a won and a lost duel. Having that bubble to dance around when you are closer to half/or low Hp is so vital
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Literally do not touch the hero. Despise playing as him. And for reference I play Sym Brig Mercy the most.
I think heâs fine personally. Donât see the issue.
No he doesnât. Itâs not even close to great mobility. No he doesnât itâs just good damage like most of the dps roster has. And his role is very clearly midrange sniper. Playing similar ranges to Bap
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Hanzo suffers from the fact that I donât think Blizzard knows what they want him to be. He used to be more sniper oriented, but he was an actual joke to go against since once dove he has a single unreliable scatter arrow to protect him and that was it.
They decided to give him leap (which I agree with) to help with this. The issue is they kind of jumped the gun a bit with storm arrows. They could have easily balanced out scatter and it would have been way less oppressive, since you canât just slam it into a crowd and farm accidental headshots like storm arrows.
He still retains his sniper mechanics (the one shot), but they moved him to mid range and closer as a effective fighting range. Slowing down his arrows, giving him more mobility, and a shoot fast button primed him up to switch niches. Likely wonât see any changes until Overwatch 2, but I hope they actually decide what they want him to be.
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Heroes that excel at killing tanks should not also have long-range capabilities. They should strictly be close-quarters heroes with a high risk factor.
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Yep, so if someone did 800 damage in a single low CD move, it wouldnât be OP because damage can be negated, right? I mean, if Dvaâs DM can eat it, thereâs negation. You just need to anticipate the damage, obviously.
Negation will always be a thing. However, there is a reasonable threshold for how much burst damage a hero can do. Hanzo can melt a tank, full-0, in under a second if he lands even a single headshot. That is WELL past the reasonable threshold for burst damage.
You also seem to put a lot of stock in defensive abilities. If you drain all your defense blocking storm arrows, whatâs there to block flash + fan or echoâs beam or soldierâs helix?
He doesnât get free damage. Agreed. But burst damage itself needs to be toned down, not just from Hanzo.
I have, and always will, hate this argument. Hanzoâs storm arrows are a 10s cd, which is fairly low. But his lunge is 5s. Waiting out that CD is almost impossible.
Even then, what if Hanzo figures out that youâre not diving because youâre waiting for him to storm, and then holds it for when you do dive? You play this giant game of chicken where you are not allowed to dive him and heâs still getting a lot of value shooting without storming. No, denying him that move is nowhere NEAR the value of him denying you the ability to dive.
My point is this: The arguments youâre making do NOTHING to show that the current values are actually balanced and in-line. You could apply your rationalization to any argument, no matter how ridiculous the numbers.
I agree itâs not all doom-and-gloom, but tanks having low TTKs is one of the major issues and frustration points for tank players at all levels, and particularly in high-level play.
Tank busting abilities need to be toned down.
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So you admittedly donât play tank?
Got it.
Makes sense why you donât think heâs a problem.
You see, with how few tank players the game actually has, only those of us who queue it endlessly for hours daily understand the issues with heroes like Hanzo, Echo, Doomfist, Torb and Mei. Because we take more abuse than anyone else from them.
But because you just never really have to deal with them, you think itâs easy to just reserve all your cooldowns for that one hero when thereâs 5 others on the field. Maybe if youâre on support or DPS you can do that, but tank? Not so much.
But unless you main it (few do) you donât get it.
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So if weâre putting aside defensive abilities how much do you want healing to be nerfed.
it is not 1 shot per second
That would be OP.
Except thatâs not the ability we are discussing. We are discussing Storm Arrows something that does reasonable damage especially when you consider it can be partially or completely negated due to how much damage it deals.
Itâs not breaking any massive thresholds where it destroys winston D.va burns through bubble and outlasts matrix.
can and will are different.
Hanzo will miss shots, shots will be blocked, the timer can run out on storm arrows, he might not hit any headshots, other defensive cooldowns like Bubble and fortify play into it.
Knockbacks can displace his shots. etc
he is not melting tanks from full-0 except in exceptional circumstances or bad play.
Then congratulations, you successfully dived into 2 heroes who will shred you.
This is where your team comes in. Defense matric, Brig shield, immortality field, healing, nade, hook.
You arenât 1 little winston taking on a big world.
With just lunge his ability to duel a tank is gone. Storm arrows AND lunge enables it, you just gotta wait for one or the other. Or just use a co-ordinated dive because storm arrows and lunge isnât enough to fend of a co-ordinated dive. This is why Dive shreds him, he has tools for one hero, not multiple.
Dive another target then.
itâs all mind games, if youâre making Hanzo hold storm arrows for just you, then youâre getting value from it too.
The game doesnât revolve around killiing just hanzo.
Ok so 350 damage vs winston barrier. thatâs half itâs health. How is that not reasonable for a 10s cooldown. When it takes 1s to even dish out that damage.
In that time Winston or whoever winston is enabling gets a lot of wiggle room and hanzo now has no cooldown to use on the person that wants to fight him.
Because those heroes arenât the issue. The tanks are.
TO negate these tank busting heroes, you need to play a good tank synergy with the decent supports.
The problem being most ranks canât use tank synergy because itâs been nerfed to the point it 's quite difficult to execute correctly. Because in the top ranks its oppressive and in low ranks it was fine, but you balance around the top so nerfs came.
Or Iâm just saying use your cooldowns for the right things. Donât block trash damage and utilise your tank synergies the best you can.
Often low ranks do devolve into these duels where winston should be saving his cooldowns for his ideal target. because no team is using synergies to their fullest and 1v1s matter quite a bit.
You would be correct.
Itâs 1 shot per 1.25s. I just simplified my speech.
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There is no way its about 1 second per shot
Imo its not Shot ⌠Shot ⌠Shot⌠Shot⌠Shot
its Shot Shot Shot Shot Shot
He can melt anyone, cause he is hotâŚ
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itâs what the wiki says.
0.75 charge time
0.5s recovery before you begin charging your next one (this doesnât adjust if you spam arrows with elss charge either)
Unless you mean storm arrows which is 0.25s recovery and that takes 1s to use all of them.
But in my post where I said it was 1s I was referring to primary.
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LMAO.
Itâs impossible to not block trash damage when that âtrash damageâ is a 125dmg projectile that cuts my HP in half if it hits my face.
From everything youâve written itâs beyond obvious you simply donât play tank.
Why Iâm trying to convince you of anything at this point is beyond me.
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Way to avoid the core question he was asking
and Im think you were replying to OP talking about storm arrowsâŚand I was talking about the storm arrows
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Because you seem to be forgetting that A. a lot of the value of storm arrows IS in that they can crit and are precise and B. that tank TTK IS an issue right now.
Cut all the fluff, and this is what it comes down to. Myself, and many other people believe that tanks are dying too quickly in the current game because of buffed damage and nerfed defenses. We believe that burst needs to be toned down because of this. (And Storm Arrows is a perfect example of this powercreepâthe move is now much faster than it used to be, and it didnât even used to exist)
If you disagree and think tank TTK ISNâT a problem, fine. Me, I think a single DPS hero having the capability to shred a tank in under a second is evidence of this issue. McCree and Echo are also fairly good examples of the problem.
And a side note? Your winston shield argument sucks. Hanzo will have already deployed most of his arrows in the time it takes winston to drop his shield, and if Hanzo is in close range, the shield wonât stop the arrows.
Even in the magical world where the shield is at the perfect range for blocking it, YOU are forgetting about the rest of Hanzoâs team who can shoot through the barrier in almost no time whatsoever.
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If you tone down burst then you need to tone down healing equally as much. This is coming from someone who plays every role.
Jeff Kaplan said multiple times the goal of the Hanzo rework was not to nerf him but to make him more âfairâ and âfunâ to play against. Despite saying that theyâve nerfed the base damage of each arrow and reduced the overall count.
Itâs the opposite of powercreep.
The buff to the refire rate did not increase the damage of each arrow. You still get hit for the same amount.
That buff did primarily 1 thing which was allowing Hanzo to break thru healing a bit easier which was needed since ammo count + damage nerf
Also screw off with this âweâ crap. I play Oris and Ball and I donât fall into your camp. Iâd rather see Dva and Rein nerfed before they touch Hanzo.
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I think burst healing needs to be toned down too tbh. Things like Zen/Lucio/Mercy arenât nearly as much of an issue. Burst damage is king because meta healers like Bap/Ana can pump out so much healing that the only way to chew through a tank is to burst them down insanely quick.
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