What if Moira could heal through barriers


#21

what ?


#22

I don’t think I want like… Higher healing from her. Just moderately more consistent. I’m with you on fade and again, I think it’s because she’s a high target. Winston leaping every six is fine with a large health pool and barrier. Moira getting dove by two, and getting ulted after makes her need for mobility higher imo. Her mobility should have been her main source of survivability not sustain like they made her. In general I like survivability to come from kit use and not flat healing numbers. For brig, I wanted her to have a 600 shield versus her high self heal. Lucio was good with his wall riding changes (except the latest one imo), ana has sleep and nade and mercy has ga. I like resources being how you survive.

I just prioritize healing for Moira in particular first. She wasn’t op or anything. And when the fix went live, it was mostly confusion from players imo. She was designed to be Mercy’s counterpart but became Ana’s instead and idk why.

But i think it’s fair to say that I take issue with many design choices done by blizzard …


#23

Just go around the barriers.


#24

Just kill the enemy so healing isn’t needed at all.

Lol what? They aren’t saying they struggle with it inherently. They just want Moira to offer something else. It’s adding something. If they said 'let Moira give bubbles to allies" it’s the same thing. It’s not saying “I can’t heal allies” it’s asking for something more than what’s given.


#25

just as I said…


#26

People are so used to hyperbole, it’s become bad for them if something is just “fine” and not “perfect”.

Moira IS fine as she is, and reducing her to “can only heal/deal damage” is forgetting that she can aoe heal, survive combat with right click/fade and can do damage and heal at the same time. Meanwhile Mercy can only rely on ally positioning, can only heal OR boost OR deal damage at the same time, AND can only aoe during her ult.

Giving Moira extra utility might make her too good.


#27

Don’t forget that Moira not only outpaces both of the others in single target HPS (Mercy has 50 and Ana has 60 if she’s constantly landing every shot, compared to Moira’s 80), but she’s also the only person that can constantly heal multiple allies. Ana can only do one burst every 10 seconds (assuming she uses it the moment it comes off CD and never offensively) and as I said before, Mercy has 0 multi target ability outside of her ult.

Moira’s utility is the ability to multitask. She doesn’t ever have to focus on any one thing. It’s okay for her to be slightly limited if her team pushes too far up into an enemy barrier without her. Besides, she’s not a sniper like Ana, she can just go up with them. It’s not like she’s at risk of getting stuck in a Grav or anything since her Fade is one of the only get out of jail free cards in the game.


#29

In real game experience, and I have a lot of it with Moira, it is fairly rare to be able to heal even 2 allies at a time, with 3 or more at the same time being rare in the extreme


#31

Exactly. If pure potential is here, well, ana can not only heal her whole team but damage the enemy team all at once. Practicality is part of it.

This isn’t good or bad inherently. Ana being a sniper means she has more leeway with distance too.

Moira can throw an orb but by the time it gets to a target they could have moved and it can bump away from where needed.

Moira having barriers blocking healing didn’t even really change her healing output. It just changed her use in her pros and cons. Id rather her have an additional pro since she offers her team limited potential in utility.


#32

Which is why I didn’t just say that by itself.

Note this is also ignoring her orb, which, when added, even outpaces Ana landing all her shots on a bio-naded teammate. (~100 HPS vs 130)

You’re right, practicality is key. And in a practical scenario, Moira still outheals the others by a decent margin. I’m not pretending that Moira is constantly healing all 6 teammates at once, but the other main healers don’t even have the option to consistently multi-heal. Best they have is a single burst or an ult, both of which are obviously going to be more rare than a basic primary fire.

When comparing an occasional bonus to literally nothing, the occasional bonus is obviously going to win out more often, regardless of how often it actually applies, by simple merit of having 0 direct competition.

Again, I’m not trying to say Moira is some sort of heal god, but I just don’t believe that buffing her healing even more is the right idea, especially when she’s supposedly not even supposed to be the top for healing in the first place.


#33

But not really. She outheals mercy and ana ish, but considering that’s all she can do, it makes sense. It’s not even a statistically different amount overall. And ana can heal plenty of that’s all she chose to do, but she doesn’t. Anti nade is very powerful and often the best way to kill something.

The thing is… We don’t really know that.

For example, they nerfed mercy for her healing output to Moira and ana despite needing the buff to begin with, and without valk 60hps , very clearly dropped in healing output. So valk is basically making up for healing numbers fot mercy, but at 60, she was barely outperforming Moira and that apparently was not what the devs wanted.

And we don’t know what the goal for Moira was. And ana outhealed mercy for a while with her 100 nade.

And again, healing output is clearly not very affected by barriers for Moira. It’s just about giving her a strength between her and ana. Maybe you do have good aim, but there’s too many barriers. But as it stands, the choice is almost always ana or Mercy . Moira should be just as equally considered in terms of raw healing because that’s all she does. Barriers shouldn’t affect her, just as they don’t affect mercy. This way, the choice is more,

Ana for strong healing and utility.
Moira for pure raw healing
Mercy for consistent strong healing

Moira’s niche isn’t consistency, but that’s addressed in her form of resourcea. It’s over kill to put more constraints on it. Her raw healing power is hindered by a basic function in the game. That raw healing output function was hurt with barriers and it didn’t make sense to do it. And for no real reason

Mercy imo shouldn’t have been nerfed in her base healing and I would rather her have plenty of other things done to keep her design with what they said they wanted for her. However, that design insight is not given to us for Moira and we have to infer it.

And I think she’s everything mercy isn’t. Mercy has decent healing with no limits. Moira has strong healing with limits.

Mercy is mobile but teammate dependent.
Moira is mobile on her own .

Mercy has higher mobility but is very vulnerable.
Moira has moderate mobility but is invulnerable while doing it.

So for me, the heal through barriers between them should be not a thing. Mercy and Moira are to start off the same to be equal. The healing output as a mechanic should be the same to make weighing mercy vs Moira a fair choice to every other aspect of their kits.

Mercy’s actual healing output tho, is irrelevant to me as far as pure numbers go. Again, I think the devs messed her up entirely if Lucio can out heal her. :woman_shrugging:t5:


#34

Oh just like they fixed the bug that Mercy was able to damage boost Dragonstrike or D.vas Self-destruct?


#35

…yeah…
(20 chars)


#36

Then what if Ana could heal through barriers at half effectiveness… yes…


#37

Moira counts as a healer, and thus (supposedly) is not intended to pump out more healing than Mercy.

I keep putting supposedly because that evidently isn’t the case right now, hasn’t been for a while. I’m just quoting the last thing we’ve heard a dev say on this.

This is just my sticking point.

  • Moira out heals Mercy.
  • The devs have stated no one should out heal Mercy
  • Thus buffing Moira’s healing is simply not going to happen

You can keep arguing that that shouldn’t be the case and that Moira should heal the most, I legitimately don’t care. I’m just pointing out, as far as the devs have told us, that is what the intent is, so a buff like this is very unlikely.

And that nade subsequently got nerfed, which only backs up my point that the devs probably don’t want others out healing Mercy.

Again, you’re ignoring the fact that she also deals significantly more damage than the other two main healers combined.

“But that doesn’t count as utility!” I hear you say.
Helping kill the enemy is not something you can just constantly brush off. When talking about kits, Mercy’s damage boost is always brought up as part of “Mercy’s utility” (you even brought it up yourself) but that only contributes ~400 damage to the team on average. Moira contributes ~6800.

To say that “literally all Moira does is healing” is being willfully ignorant of the other half of her kit.

Exactly. And one of those limits Moira has but Mercy doesn’t is LoS from barriers.

I mean, you had to specify low ranks, which more shows it’s the player’s fault, not her kit. We’ve all seen those silver Lucio’s that just stay on pocket heals the entire time and never utilize his speed or mobility.


#38

ironically, there have been countless threads (including one today) implying or outright declaring that Moira is used to DPS rather than heal :slight_smile:

me, i like to do both - constant productivity for my team as much as possible


#39

My point is they said that… And then nerfed it. What they say and what they’ve done is not the same.

But why? This isn’t a buff to her output. It’s function. Her healing numbers stayed the same after her barrier fix.

Until they nerfed mercy.

For overbuff… I am always always outhealed by other healers on mercy. I also outheal her on any other healer. But how I play isn’t always relevant.

If youre upset about Mercy, cool. It doesn’t mean Moira has to be badly designed too.

Mercy is also supposed to be A mobile healer… Who slows more than any other player while using a basic ability. She also is supposed to be a consistent healer… Who has to stop healing while using a basic ability…

Clearly there are issues with Mercy beyond just healing output.

That shouldn’t affect Moira.


#40

The day moira heals through barriers I will start asking for hack through them too.


#41

Why though? Outside of lower ranks, Moira is in a bad spot. She needs buffs, not nerfs and buffs. Besides, it’s not like the lower tiers will be mad if Moira can heal through barriers.


#42

If you wanna be specific Ana has a resource too.