What are Mercy mains thinking?

I don’t know if this will bring her up to where she should be either. But that’s not what the complaints seem to be about. They seem to just be about how it’s “a net nerf” all together, how this buff is somehow invalidated because she used to be stronger a few patches prior. Then the analogy tends to be something about getting unfairly robbed followed by partial returns, when in reality a more proper one would be about actually trying to balance a scale (hence why it’s called balance in the first place). She was ahead of everyone, and now she’s behind. The devs are taking a half step before they leap back into how she was when she was ahead is all. This is literally the most fair way to everyone the devs could work right now, yet that seems to go over people’s heads.

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I mean, it is a net nerf. Mercy is objectively weaker than she used to be. She was also too strong she was nerfed at all, but that 17% nerf was all it took to make her trash, apparently.

Like I said, what people are upset about is that the patch buff doesn’t fix what people see as Mercy’s problem right now: her lack of impactful healing. We don’t have numbers to see how impactful Valkyrie is, but there seems to be a consensus that Valkyrie is overall underwhelming. All this patch does is put Valkyrie right back where it started (being underwhelming instead of grossly underwhelming) while Mercy outside of Valk is still grossly underwhelming.

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Not to sound mean but you haven’t said anything new or enlightening and this was a bit unnecessary. To help your cause, people should stop repeating themselves so much because this narrative gets reworded and repeated a lot.

Mercy you and me****

:laughing:

What Mercy mains are thinking? Pretty much this with all the toxicity and the poor balancing the devs have done to her

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It actually does:

They nerfed Junkrat because of “frustrating parts of his kit”, which is something literally every hero has,

They also admitted one of the reasons Mercy was changed was because “it was disheartening to play against”

Using fun as an arguement is perfectly valid since the main reason Mercy was changed was because they thought Mass Rez wasn’t fun to play with or against. Well neither is Valkyrie.

I agree, but I still don’t think it’s useful. It’s great when you get to damage boost, but it’s bad when you have to heal with it. And it’s pretty much the only way Mercy gets a Rez off mid-fight.

I disagree, just because it’s subjective doesn’t mean it’s invalid. If it’s a widely shared opinion that something is unfun, then it’s a pretty good sign to look into it to see if it can be made better/more engaging.

Disagree, I don’t like having Mercy’s on my team as I feel they are a vastly inferior option to the rest of the supports. She doesn’t have the mid-fight utility of an Off-Healer or the strong heals of a main one. All this change does is make Mercy have to rely even more on Valkyrie as a crutch.

I mean there’s probably a middle ground that can be reached right? It doesn’t have to be “Mass Rez or bust” if the Devs gave any indication what they are going for with Mercy. The community has nothing to build around, so they just go back to the thing they remembered they had fun on, which was Mass Rez.

Personally I can’t see why people could enjoy her now. At least with Mass Rez you got the excitement of seeing a huge rez in the kill feed. With Valkyrie you just press q and aimlessly fly around. Unless you battle mercy which really isn’t the point of her kit. But to each their own.

That wasn’t their only option, and looking back with hindsight bias there were many other options.But if it’s gone, it’s gone, but I feel Mercy needs some kinda burst impact again. Because Rez just isn’t worth it with all it’s limitations currently, and it’s too strong without them.

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Whatever PR they wanna use, they will use. Already covered that point, not gonna write another essay on it. Jeff has to be politically correct, that doesn’t change the fact that mass rez isn’t gone because it was not fun to play against. It’s gone because it was an unhealthy and bad mechanic that fueled the hide&rez strat which was against what the devs intended.

A beam that heals everybody not good enough for you? Well, it’s plenty fine for me.

You might want to consider using your teammates. It’s a team game after all.

Fun and balance are two separate things. One is subjective, the other one is not. And even if I was to play along, Mercy not being fun is not a vastly widely shared opinion and the Mercy mains are not a homogeneous group. Not to mention the forums are a tiny, minuscule fraction of the OW population. I find Mercy plenty fun, why does your lack of fun trump over my fun?

Sounds like a personal issue to me. I welcome any Mercy on my team and have absolutely no issue whatsoever having one with me or playing one either.

Conversely no other support can bring someone back from the dead and change the tide of battle or swing the fight one way or another.

The middle ground is already here mate. Mass rez was terrible and it’s gone for a good reason (which me and others have covered bajillion times).

I don’t think the issue is with Valkyrie in this case.

You know like Valkyrie? Heals everybody?

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Not what is being said at all.

What was said means you can not prove an equal number find her fun vs an equal number find her unfun, or any other ratio in this regard…

Thus this point is forfeit.

I say fun you say unfun, I say tomato you say Tomatto.

Nothing to accomplish here.

Fact is since launch lots of players found Mercy boring to play as a pure heal bot.

The “Fun” players had was abusing SR one tricking and they loved hiding then jumping out and pressing 1 button to win a point, yeah so much “fun”.
It was effective, it was cheap, but to say holding one button 90% of a match, hiding for 9% of a match and then pressing a second button was fun isnt telling the whole story. (Its always fun for the abuser to abuse others or systems, but only to them and for bad reasons that arent good for the game IMO)

For me the most “fun” was always the damage boosting priority to help that soldier pick the pharah or healer, etc.

If you play as pure healbot you never played her right anyways and the system was too slanted towards boring heal bot or hide and rez gameplay both of which were extremely low action and this is what people consider less fun.

So they gave her a super active ult to liven things up, makes perfect sense if you think about it.

Now as you can see there is zero consensus among mercy players about “the one true fix” the most common request is straight up revert which is banging your head into the wall now.

For me currently her ult is great, but then again I play with a second healer and use her ult to damage boost the entire team during a team fight which all but guarantees a win if your second healer exists.

So fun is different for everyone and since lots of people think exploits are “fun” it shouldnt be a primary concern if “you” in particular consider her fun or not.

If she truely wasnt fun or viable why would anyone play her besides the fact mercy one tricks are the hardest one tricks in general? (Which is also bad for the game)

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My point exactly. I really have to question people’s objectivity when they say Valkyrie is easier than mass rez. You literally pressed a single button for instant reward with absolutely no counter-play. Valkyrie is rocket science by comparison. And holding M1/M2 was something that Mercy always did. So this “fun” argument is essentially people wanting to go back to the SR abuse and hide&rez which is already proven to be a fundamentally unhealthy state of the game. And majority of people are glad that it’s gone.

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So like 95-99% of the playerbase doesnt matter when it comes to balancing?

This is a straight up plea for an OP char but “Only in 95-99% of the games though guys, its fine”

Glad you arent in charge to say the least.

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These are actually good ideas.

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I find it super funny people complain about brigs healing being way too high and she becomes “unkillable” with lucio levels of self heal, yet mercy putting out 4 times that amount is considered trash tier by these sad mercy mains.

So which is it? Is 16HPS too much, or is 50HPS too little?

Its cant be both, or can it within the mind of a mercy one trick?

lets watch and find out…

Again, it’s not an either-or.

The goal is not “either Mercy mains are happy and no one else, or vice-versa”.

If that’s what you think, I’m glad YOU aren’t in charge.

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You’re asking me as if I think Brigitte’s healing is too high.

The reason Mercy’s healing is too low is due to her role as main healer. She has no burst healing; her only option is single-target sustain, but 50 hps only makes her SLIGHTLY better than Zenyatta–with less range, a worse ult, and the inability to do anything else while she heals.

Anyway, it’s clear you’re just a salty troll trying to get a reaction from “Mercy one tricks” (which, again, I ain’t). So regardless of what you have to say next, you aren’t worth me wasting any more of my time.

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What I don’t understand is why the complaining started AFTER she wasn’t a must pick anymore. In your case, you had 100$ while everyone’s else had 50$.

This is objectively false. We’ve always been complaining. One look at the old forums and old posts on this forums will tell you that. :slight_smile:


𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓜𝓮𝓻𝓬𝔂 𝓘𝓬𝓮 𝓒𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓶 𝓜𝓸𝓿𝓮𝓶𝓮𝓷𝓽

:shaved_ice::chocolate_bar:

Spreading positivity and ice cream, one Mercy at a time.
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There absolutely can be something to accomplish. If one person dislikes the status quo and suggests a change they consider an improvement, it doesn’t mean that another person who is already happy with the status quo could not possibly like that suggestion. The best case scenario is an outcome that both parties are happy with, in other words a compromise.
It is perfectly valid to make a suggestion just as it is perfectly valid to not agree with that suggestion. A compromise can not be reached if you instantly disqualify any point the other party is trying to make simply because you disagree with their motives.

So how can this be a fact all of a sudden if fun can’t be measured?

I don’t see how this is relevant to the discussion about whether or not “fun” should be a valid argument, and I still haven’t written anything about Mercy in this thread. If your agenda is to denounce Mercy players because all of them allegedly exploited the SR system back in the days, please, leave me out of it. I have zero interest to argue about this again.

Didn’t you tell me that there is nothing to accomplish in arguing about fun? Because now it looks like you are trying to convince me that all the people who played her “right” found her boring and all the people who had “fun” were exploiters who were hurting the game, and this is indeed starting to sound a lot like “my fun is more important than your fun”.
Either way, I still don’t know why you want to argue about Mass Rez so badly, because again, I never brought it up.

“Super active” is not how I would describe Valkyrie, but yeah, opinions.

What does that have to do with the op’s suggestion or with what I wrote in particular?

Are you trying to imply I was exploiting the SR system now? That’s new.
Either way, obviously my fun is a primary concern for me. Because, you know, I bought the game to have fun with it. Crazy, right?

“She must be fun otherwise people wouldn’t play her so if you think she isn’t fun your argument is invalid.” And just like that, we’re back to square one. The amount of people who agree or disagree with a person is irrelevant to that person’s right to voice their concerns, and if they, and only they, are not having fun in a game they bought to have fun with, that’s a perfectly valid reason to do so. If, how or when a developer should react to that concern is an entirely different question.

So fun is a valid arguement then?

Then what about Junkrat? He was no where near a must pick level (wasn’t even the most picked DPS by far), but nerfed because he had a “frustrating part to his kit”.

Not when the healing is too low to sustain a Tank. Not when it’s rather easy to burst through with literally any DPS character. Not when you could get the more healing value from just having a Moira and being grouped up. Damage Boost is the only part of Valkyrie that I find useful to have on a team. Free flight isn’t even that good because if they have a counter hitscan ultimate, you’re dead.

Sure it has a lot going for it, but not much of it is really useful to me as a Tank player. I’d rather have Ana or Moira any day

Did I say I was the Mercy? I don’t really play her to often, I just don’t like her on my team as a Tank Player.

if you’re having a brawl on point, rezzing is suicide. No matter if you have a bubble or not. Because when Mercy is rezzing, she’s not healing, and if she’s not healing, I’m dying. Rez is also pretty easy to punish, even if the team is protecting her.

Rezzing in the middle of a brawl on point in near suicide without Valkyrie. Protection or no.

I could also say that “How to counter Mass Rez, have your team mate go find her 4head”, does that make it good advice? Nope. You can’t control what your team mates do. Just because you ask, doesn’t mean you receive.

Both are actually. One person can think that Mei is OP, and the other doesn’t. People perceive balanced around the hero they play the most. I see it based off tank play, Mercy players see it off how she plays etc. etc.

balance isn’t as cut and dry as “or she has x pickrate therefore x is OP”, they could just be really popular. there were people that thought Bastion with 35% Ironclad was balanced, but since they were a minority Bastion was changed. He is now in arguably a worse spot than before Ironclad. does this mean that the Pro-35% Ironclad people were right?

I mean, based on the sheer number of posts by different people and the thousands upon thousands of comments in the Mercy mega-thread… It seems to be that way. Just as you can’t prove they are not a majority, I can’t prove that they are. All we can do is argue based on our thoughts alone.

My point with that is because of the sheer out cry of people saying Mercy was unfun to play against, it was changed. So Fun was used as a reason for balance, and therefore not an unreasonable arguement to make. Mercy was UP with Mass Rez. Even with Invuln. Rez she saw 0 use in pro play. So she was technically balanced with Mass Rez, but just unfun to play with and against.

It doesn’t, I just shared my thoughts on Mercy and that I don’t find her enjoyable. It’s up to Blizzard on which side they listen to, but of course I would like them to side with my POV.

If you have fun on Mercy, good for you, but I won’t playing around a Mercy.

It’s more of the fact that I like playing aggressive. I find playing too passively to be punishing from experience. With a Mercy as a main heal, I can’t be aggressive. She has no burst, no way to keep me alive apart from 50 HP/s, which if a Winston is tickling me then I’m for sure dead.

I don’t find anything in her kit worth it. Ana with her Nade and CC is better. Moira with her vastly superior healing is better. The only thing that is left is Rez, which unless she is queuing with someone to babysit her 24/7, mostly likely won’t happen should I die on point.

I’m not going to be like “Oh a Mercy GG EZ We Lost” or anything, but I just sort of sigh in slight annoyance.

The other healers can swing a fight in one direction or another. Nade is one of the best abilities in this game. Moira with her heal balls and strong healing allows me to create space. Mercy can maybe rez me depending on our team and the situation, once every 30 seconds. Ana can swing a team-fight with an ability on a 10 second cool-down.

There’s no other support that can Anti-heal a whole team. There’s no healer that can bash people with a personal shield. There’s no other healer that can cause a 30% damage increase to a single target. It’s part of Mercy unique identity, like the part every healer has.

Is this the best they can do?

Also, that’s not a middle ground, that’s just your side. I mean by middle ground is something that can please both sides. Which it is obviously failing at due to how hot a topic this is on the forums.

People have also stated how Mass Rez could have been tweaked to not be as terrible that people have said a bajillion times.

In my opinion, it is. Since really only hit-scan’s can pressure you in Valkyrie, most other DPS just don’t even bother going for you. They just melt your team instead because you aren’t a priority. It’s not like Valkyrie makes people that much harder to kill anyways. When I play Mercy I valkyrie expecting to have to pull some crazy moves, but they just ignore me. It feels boring to me, but again that’s just me.

Not really a burst. Moira can do the same thing for nearly triple the healing of Valkyrie just by having good positioning and target priority. Coalesence feels clutch because you can save a dying team mate with high healing. As Mercy your’s will die because 50 HP/s is something even a Winston can negate.Is she more at risk to die than in Valkyrie? Maybe, depends where she is. She can also damage while doing it. So you feel as if you can do more. Mercy’s just makes you feel as if you have only 2 options, Heal or Damage.

EDIT: I just wanted to address this quote real quick.

Actually I would say there is, as currently the most upvoted post in forum history is a suggestion for a Mercy Rework.

With 1686 Upvotes. That indicates it to be a pretty popular idea. So I would say that there is a clear favorable solution.

Now, Yes this is technically a Revert. BUT, it is a revert with a heap load of drawbacks added that could discourage and prevent Hide-and-Rez.

It also gives Mercy an ability to affect a fight more heavily. I don’t know how this would play out from the perspective of a tank player, but I find it interesting.

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Uhm, no? Not when you are talking about balance. Dunno where you got that conjecture from.

What about Junkrat? We are not talking about Junkrat, we are talking about Mercy.

No single support can sustain a tank under pressure fire or burst damage. Same applies to any DPS. A widowmaker will one-shot you no matter which support is supporting you. Your argument is pointless.

That sounds like a “you” problem to me, not an issue with Mercy.

What rank are you? I have never been killed by hit-scan while flying with Valkyrie, ever. Not a single time. And if we count ults, only once to a nano-boosted high noon Mcree.

Your personal preference is not an indication for anything other than taste.

Sounds like a personal issue again.

Not if your tanks are smart, done it plenty of times.

That only seems like an indication to your skill as a tank, not an issue with your support.

Never had any issue pulling it off. But than again I’m in a group of 120 people so playing in a 6-stack with someone who speaks my language is never an issue. Still communication and teamwork is expected in a game like this. This is not an issue with the hero.

Except map design is such that very often even if you killed Mercy first, she was able to come back from spawn and rez everyone anyway. Making the entire game basically a hunting contest who can find the hiding spot of the Mercy and then wipe the team before she makes it back. And so on and so forth - this is well documented etc.

Bias and subjectivity are two different things. The more heroes you play, the more likely you are not to have a lot of bias towards a particular hero. Don’t confuse the terminology.

Never stated that. And we are not talking about Bastion.

My proof is by virtue of mass rez not existing in the game. Pretty irrefutable proof I would say - something that the majority of the community, the pros and the devs agreed upon. The SR abuse is well documented, the hide&rez unhealthy mechanic was a clearly established phenomenon. Both of those things are irrefutable. The forums are a minuscule fraction of the community and the forums is not a homogeneous group and neither are the Mercy mains. These comments you talk about are always by the same people, same with the threads.

It was changed because it was causing unintended gameplay and a broken mechanic.

Mercy was never UP ever in the history of OW. And she was a must pick in OWL for 8+ months. You are irrefutably wrong on both accounts. Mercy was not a solid pick for 1% of the OW population for 3 seasons only. Which makes her a must pick for 9 seasons and a solid choice for 3 more seasons anywhere under that 1%.

Sounds like a personal issue again. Not an issue with the character.

Yep, clearly a personal issue.

You might wanna start watching some more OWL mate in that case. Sorry you hate Mercy but your bias is clearly showing in all honesty. I don’t hate Mercy and I would welcome any Mercy on my team.

Sorry, OP Mercy ain’t coming back again, they made multiple statements about it.

Didn’t you claim you don’t play Mercy? You need to make up your mind to make your argument and story more consistent.

Already established that burst damage cannot be out-healed no matter which support it is.

You realize that in a game with 40 million accounts, 1000 people is so abysmally small. Not to mention many of those upvotes are clearly from smurfs (forum accounts with literally 0 posts). Not to mention the suggestion itself is so ridiculously broken that I would seriously question the objectivity of anyone who think it’s a good idea to give Mercy a mass rez for dead teammates and an AoE 150 Burst heal for living allies and Mercy herself at the same time. This is so brokenly overpowered, that it’s beyond me how anyone can quote this thread like it’s some sort of gospel.

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me?? having money?? im calling bs

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