Was this an unwinnable game?

I’m currently silver 1 in DPS. I played torbjorn mostly on this map and ended up with 41 elims + 22k damage and still lost. I had one of the best stats in the game compared to everyone else. I don’t know how much more I could’ve done as a silver player to be able to win that game.

Here’s the replay code: NRQEWS

Short answer: no, this match was not unwinnable, especially since it wasn’t a full hold. You just didn’t bring much value in the final fight that lasted a staggering 2 minutes.
Long answer:

Do you want to be silver, or do you want to win the match? If you want to be silver, which is fine if that’s what you want to be, you’re not going to win those matches most of the time because you’re at the top of silver, and if you did win those matches more often than not, you would climb. But if you’re fine being silver or have decided you can’t/won’t devote more time to getting better (because after all, there is much more to life than your rank in a video game), then you need to accept that you will win this match and others like it about 50% of the time. But that doesn’t make this match unwinnable.

On the other hand, if you want to win that match and others like it more often that not, then you need to play better than a silver/your current rank. The match ended with a 2-minute fight with a combined 17 kills. Your team got 7 of those kills, but 3 on the Baptiste were countered by their Mercy rezzing him (Mercy, for the record, only died at the very beginning of that fight). She should not be allowed to do that for free. The problem for you is that your 2 kills in that fight were on that Baptiste, so your low contribution for that fight (average of 1 kill a minute) was nullified. But what’s worse is that you got a nano and used your ult in that long fight, but neither ult secured a kill. That’s terrible value.

Better target priority, target focus, and aim would have allowed you to do more in that final fight. Better turret and ult placement would have helped, too, and these two were issues I saw all game long. Your turret could have done much more if you threw it up on the staircase to give it more vision, help you finish off enemies you target, and draw aggro away from the teamfight (because enemies would have to turn their focus away from the teamfight to kill the turret). When you ulted as Torb, you threw so much of your molten core on top of itself instead of spreading it out. 2+ patches of MC in one spot don’t do more damage than 1 patch. Slow down and aim it so you can spread it out to increase the damage and area denial.


like the previous guy said
damage that doesnt secure a kill is damage that is throwing the game
poking and slowly damage people and letting enemy supports heal them means you either have to have stellar ults and just smashing the team or you are feeding enemy healers ults and are contributing to your teams downfall. you need far more focused dmg so your dmg numbers are much lower but much more efficient. torb is deceptive in that you will get lots of dmg but most of that dmg is detrimental to the team meanwhile someone like tracer may have much lower dmg but its all concentrated on the kills being generated, same with widowmaker.

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Thanks guys. Forgot to correct myself earlier, I’m actually bronze 1 on DPS, not silver 1. But either way, ranks doesn’t seem to mean much anymore since it’s the MMR that counts. And you’re right, there’s still a lot of things I could’ve done, even as a bronze player.

I have to admit though, climbing on tank and DPS seems to be a lot harder than I initially thought. But I’m not too sure if that’s because I haven’t put enough time on those two roles, or because support is just inherently easier to climb.

I’m currently gold 5 on support. I peaked plat 5 but dropped ranks due to rank reset, decay, and loss streak. I was a gold support before in OW1 and I reached this gold rank after grinding hundreds of hours into ranked, so it was a gradual process which took years. Initially, I was stuck in bronze for a long time. But once I reached silver, reaching gold was relatively fast (compared to getting out of bronze).

Now that I’ve reached gold on support, for some reason whenever I drop down to silver on support, all the matches start becoming too easy to the point where it’s practically impossible to lose and I end up rising back to gold again really quickly. I’m not sure if this is because I’ve become a good support player, or the matchmaker is forcing me to win in order to make me go back to the rank it thinks I “belong” (aka gold).

This indicates the matchmaker is working. As you get lower ranked games you will find it much easier to carry the match. At the higher end you will struggle to carry the game and hence lose more often. So, it seems you are probably low gold support skill wise.

Now to start looking for the mistakes keeping you in gold.

Another unwinnable game. This is a silver 3 game. I went 7 - 1 on Ashe and my team only killed 1 at most. I honestly don’t know what I could’ve done. I’m hardstuck silver because I’ve been getting so many matches like this lately.


Here you go. I hope you find this useful. The higher def version should be out within the next 30 minutes.


Wow, I wasn’t expecting a full VOD review! Thank you so much!

I didn’t shoot the ramattra when he was staying still because I thought that he was purposely trying to farm ultimates for his supports. But turns out that wasn’t the case, so I should’ve capitalised on his mistakes sooner.

Regarding why I didn’t bob sooner, I initially considered doing it as soon as their ramattra died. But I wasn’t keeping track of how many enemies were left and I wanted my team to push in with bob.

Because so many times, I’ve had my bob get taken down by the enemy with ease because my team wasn’t applying enough pressure. Which is why I was waiting for my team to push in a bit in order to get the maximum value of bob.

Regardless of the bob timing, the positioning of bob was bad which I definitely agree. I actually didn’t even know that bob counts as a player and helps to capture points faster.

I also wasn’t aware of the high ground spots you’ve mentioned in King’s Row, so I will certainly use that to my advantage next time.

To be honest, I didn’t even expect to receive a VOD review so I feel really, really appreciate what you’ve done <3

Re: posting my previous comment here because I’m unable to double post unless someone else posts for some reason.

This is my typical support game in Gold rank (code: 21RV65)

I didn’t even try in this game and even trolled by nano boosting baptiste. And yet, I still easily won. And even if I lose a couple of games as a gold support, I rarely ever drop down to Silver. And even when I do, I quickly climb back to gold again in no time.

I’ve also spectated our ashe this game who appears to be in Gold 1. And to be honest with you, I don’t see her being that much better than I am. She didn’t even take high ground during the first point of defence which I personally would do, and her aim wasn’t that great either.

I also spectated hanzo this game which I can also play, and he wasn’t doing that much better than me either. And yet, I struggle to climb out of Silver 4 as DPS while these DPS players have no problem staying in Gold 1.

One thing I’ve noticed is that the enemies (particularly supports) are so much easier to kill in my Gold rank. Notice how the enemy zenyatta was basically a free kill for my hanzo and ashe the entire game. And yet in low Silver, the enemy supports all of a sudden start playing like they’re in high Gold/low Plat. More often than not, you get outplayed mechanically by the enemy supports in low Silver and and they punish you harder for your mistakes too.

I think the matchmaker is playing some kind of trickery in order to make the players stay in the rank it thinks it belongs in. I’m not saying it’s impossible to climb out of low elo, but it forces you to have to get better by at least 2 - 3 ranks and grind a lot of games just to climb 1 tier. I wouldn’t be surprised that by the time I get out of Silver as DPS, I’ll most likely have developed the skill level equivalent of a mid-to-high Plat DPS player which is ridiculous.

having watched about a minute of it i can tell you the reason these matches feel unwinnable is because your mechanic’s are severely lacking for a dps.

maybe you have decent aim for a silver, i wouldnt know, but if you want to climb you need BETTER then silver player aim.

the key to climbing out of silver on dps is pretty much just getting kills before they kill your team.

dealing alot of dmg sounds great but stats mean nothing, any dmg done that doesnt lead to a kill feeds the ult charge of a support and support ults typically are better then dps ults.

for instance you have 22k dmg and 41 elims, thats an effective dmg per kill of 536, which is crazy high.

no offense but i couldnt tell if you were on PC or console so i cant recommend anything to help you improve aim, but for which ever platform you play on there are ways to improve and that would be the first place you should start looking in my opinion. all the positional and ult usage tips that people tend to give are going to be meaningless if you cant land the shot which is why im not really covering that and instead im focusing so hard on mechanic’s.

I’m guessing you watched my torb gameplay? That was in bronze 1. I’m in silver 4 now and mostly play ashe and have a 54% winrate. Although I have higher winrate on torb (64% winrate).

According to the stats on heroes, I should be climbing but I’m not I don’t know why. I’ve been hovering around silver 3 - 4 for the past few weeks now.

Again, I don’t think my aim on ashe is that bad. Here are some gameplays of me playing ashe: 2FS9B6

for your rank its not worse then anyone else but you are missing shots on people that are walking in straight lines

thats a big red flag too show someone has bad aim.

like i said you want to have aim thats better then the rank you are in so that you can have a greater impact.

their are other things that matter, but knowing where to position does nothing if you are missing shots.

your hitscan aim is better then your torb but its not good enough to hard carry.

there are many paths to climbing, not everyone has great aim but its the easiest path on dps, particularly on hitscan heroes.

along side improving mechanic’s you then need to work on positioning and target priority

but these are things that are pretty common issues even into plat. which is why i largely focus on aim, if someone recognizes its a problem early enough they can adapt so that their aim improves over time, while also improving other aspects of their play.

While I agree that there’s definitely a room for improvement in my aim, I think in that particular game in Blizzard world, it was my game sense, positioning, and ability timing that cost me the game though.

To be honest that game in Blizzard world was totally winnable if I played correctly. It wasn’t like my previous game in King’s Row where my team were getting rolled and it was hard for me to peek since I would get punished by the enemy smurf kiriko for the simplest mistakes.

This game in Blizzard world I was given so much open space to do whatever I wanted because there were no smurfs punishing me. But I just didn’t take enough advantage of that opportunity.

Like for example, I definitely should’ve killed that tracer sooner. Also my bob positioning and timing was horrible. It was a close game nonetheless, and if I had used my brain a little more, I could’ve won it.

as i said, pretty much everyone in gold/plat suffer from alot of the mistakes you are talking about.

a plat players idea of positioning is standing behind the tank, but in the middle of the open. (aka bad)

the reason why mechanic’s are so high on my list here, is because its what most of the people who climbed into plat/diamond have (for dps).

obviously you dont want to die and you have to work on positioning ect

but those things are like a multiplier to your ability to get kills.

your aim for silver 4 is decent, but people have better movement and aim as you climb. so lets say im a wizard and can drop you in a gold 3 games. realistically you’ll have games where you cant hit anything because your aim wont be good enough to battle their movement while they’ll have a much easier time killing you.

you certainly want to work on game sense, positioning and using your abilities better but none of that matters as a dps if you cant consistently hit your shots.

and climbing as a dps is basically “kill everyone no exceptions”

(note: when i say mechanic’s i mean both your aim and movement)

Had a look at your overbuff stats. Quite interesting. Seems you hardly die. But it seems to be a the expense of elims and damage. I would suggest playing a little more aggressively. The opposite advice that I give most peeps.