The issue isn’t really any 2 tanks, the issue is that not all tank combinations are viable due to double barrier being so effective.
If the devs had gone back to beta where Pharah’s E has special barrier damage and changed how the damage was applied, we’d have ways to counter double barrier.
Instead of flat damage, the bonus damage should be based off a percentage of the barrier’s max health or a percentage of current health. This way the bonus damage scales with each type of barrier.
Still remove CC and place it on tanks. Still make tanks a bit more offensive.
Give dps heroes bonus damage on either cool downs for primary fire.
Still rework poorly designed heroes like Bastion, Sombra, Moira, Brig to be more viable and less niche.
Still reduce healing effectiveness.
But you don’t have to rebalance the entire roster for 5v5.
Not really. IMO, if there’s only one tank on the team, it should take 2 DPS or 1 DPS and 1 support to even stand a chance against them imo. Unless the Tank’s trash, of course.
no 5v5 is healthy and i want it in the game so bad so i can actually play the heroes i want to play. i cannot tell you how many times i’ve had teams that won’t follow up on my hacks as sombra, symmetra even is really boring to me now and i cant make her work anymore. i want 5v5 so i can play my heroes again.
I’m not saying this at all. I literally have no problem with 5v5. But a large majority of the fanbase hates it and I want the game to succeed as much as possible
Queue times are almost certainly the driving factor in the change to 5v5.
But don’t underestimate how much this change opens up the tank design space. In 5v5, launch Sigma is perfect. You can create new barrier tanks. You can give tanks powerful mobility. And you don’t have to stress about interactions with other tanks which might lead to double barrier-esque problems.
Personally, the potential for new and fun tanks outweighs the downsides. No more constant nerf parade. In theory, anyway.
To be honest with you no multiplayer focus team is, as what the devs intend and the players want out of the game is usually completely different.
But the basic idea being that tanks and supports are more capable of dueling/surviving on their own accord. Dps themselves still having the most offensive tools, tanks having the best CC tools, while supports have the best utility.
Effectively creating three completely different offensive playstyles catagories, that in themselves can breakdown into completely different experiences.
where as current OW you have two defensive semi passive playstyles, where they spend most of the game maintaining their team. More so then pushing the game forward. While the DPS are the only ones that get to actually progress it.
Which is why most players stick to DPS, because it’s to them the role that gives them the most direct and clear cut feedback.
Except if you are saying 1 player should have as much impact as 2 then you are saying you want that 1 player to be overpowered and for the game to come down to which of those 1 players is better. That is fundamentally not what OW seeks to be and never has been.
The current state shows that them saying tanks will feel more brawly is nothing more than pipe dream. Even with two tanks, not only u dont feel like u have enough room to do more dmg because u die too fast, main tanks in general are basically weakest they ever been. And if with a second tank u still dont have space to be brawly, I highly doubt that with one NERFED tank u will be, especially alongside NERFED healing and BUFFED dps.
The thing is in 5v5 their will be a lot less protection being thrown around, meaning that grouping up in big huddle all focus firing in the same direction. quite frankely will get you poked down by that one enemy player that decided to flank.
Like imagine old school dive, but with any member of the game being just as effective. And inturn splitting up over the area most of given point in small teams that each in them selves are trying to hold control of some part of the map.
Tanks by that simple fact are going to have a lot less eyes on them at once, With maybe the exception being rein mirror match at long range. And would considered a lot more tanky be that very means. You could actually see that in the pro footage. Where as a fight might start in a big brawl, it more times then not split apart over a small area.
Competing both general play space on the tanks part, while the dps took control of the high ground. Supports on the other hand were all over the place, some stood next to their tanks. Others were fending of the dps.
Of course this is all a work in progress, as they have to take in account heroes we don’t have access to. And reworks we don’t might allow for different play styles we have yet to factor.
Again, in theory 5v5 will work well, but in reality game worked best when the ttk wasnt too low nor too high (so when its not poke based nor goats / hardcore double shield). Rein zarya, rein dva, monkey dva, monkey zarya, orisa hog, orisa dva, rein sig, ball dva, ball monkey, ball zarya, rein orisa are generally duos that not only have good enough synergy, they rarely ever feel oppressive.
Most oppressive is when dva had 3 secs boosters + rein 50% steadfast, thats only time I felt oppressed by said duos.
It’s not though. That’s just a fan theory, and it’s one of the least realistic theories out there. Reverting to 6v6 would take exponentially longer than balancing 5v5.
The community hates 5v5 because it’s different and people hate change. Period. The dev doesn’t have to listen to our feedback because it’s based on ignorance. None of us have played it. Maybe it sucks. Maybe it’s great. We don’t know.
That’s the thing a lot of that is subjective compared to what heroes they play, or what the player wants out of the game. like their are people who still having goats tournaments because they really liked that style of play.
A lot of these duo’s are not really considered meta vaible, Espeically when it comes to Hog and/or orisa combo’s. Even then we are in a period of extended balancing polishing thrown out of whack by new heroes. Or the devs trying to make room for new heroes.
Do have to agree with you their, be it this is kind of the stuff the devs wanted to experiment with playstyle wise. And both were short lived, and both lead to other buffs.
Be it that ya OW2 at beta/release is going to be a balance mess 100%, be it that is what feedback is for. Also patches and the likes.
Says who? the game has been leaking players for years, and we don’t have exact stats of peek player/ player enjoyment times.
You might have periods where you were extreamly satisfied, but like their is no period of the game the player base as a whole (or even in a majority) agrees on was the best.
If were still receiving new hero updates I guarantee you this wouldn’t have remotely true.
Even then many people are not happy with the current state of Orisa who was more or less put in we made her not an issue, will be back with a rework. Same goes for bastion/sombra/ and the likes.
Like the game is balanced to a point were alot of comps can be used in very specific situations, that is honestly not the issue at hand tho.
As Ive mentioned before it’s simply because most people do not enjoy reliance on the teamplay it’s regardless of ttk. (be it that the high and low ends did scare players off, and made other fall in love)
Also if you still are worried about tanks getting blown up, here is nice bit of footage of a d.va player going two v three. om 5v5.
The game and the league had the most activity during season 1 of owl which didnt have very high nor very low ttk, outside of double sniper which had lowest viewership of all metas that season and iirc even lower than goats. The meta was mainly monkey dva, but also saw rein zarya, orisa dva and orisa hog, outside of mixtures prior to open q.
S2 of owl is great example of too high ttk which heavily reduced viewership, while s3 picked up in viewership again, and most viewed tournaments were ones that had roughly average ttk (double shield brig bap with tracer wasnt that well received but genji meta had very good viewership, as well as double bubble and talon rush). Then it plummeted again in hog zarya which had terrible criticism as well.
Whenever metas werent extreme ends of ttk (too high and too low) the game has always performed better, in casual, in pro scene and in general opinion on most platforms. S3 received compliments on having “one of most diverse metas ever” and when hog zarya hit the game it was one most complained about.
So do all games do close to launch m8 that proves literally nothing. and unless you have the blizz numbers of active players over time you can’t exactly prove that.
Also OWL was the shiny new thing at the time, people were excited it was promoted all over the place. Then when that aspect worn off people moved on and found other things.
I believe the devs when they say they literally can’t make new heroes for 6v6. That alone is reason enough to switch to 5v5, because heroes are the content of OW.
Nothing else matters. If they can’t make new heroes that fit into 6v6, but they can for 5v5, then the game should become 5v5.
