Ultimates last too long

General Discussion
1

A big problem with ultimates, beyond them being too powerful, is that they dominate the playfield for so long. With 12 heroes each with their own ultimate, the game becomes dominated by ults more or less at any (relevant) time of the game, because they last so long.

Remember Mercy’s original Valkyrie? You could just sit there disheartened while nothing died for what felt like an eternity, trying to at least build your ult. At least Valkyrie right now is not as strong, but that feeling kinda remains.

Junkrat’s tire is another example. While that thing runs over the map, god knows where, all the enemy team can do is run for cover and stay on the lookout for a low-percentage chance of shooting it. That tire can potentially run for a very long time, dominating the fight until it executes.

Moira’s ultimate lasts a long time as well, and it is really limited what you can do against it, as no barriers work and she is very hard to kill because of her mobility and the strong self-heal of the ultimate. That means that what you can do is usually only to run for cover and wait it out.

Of other long-lasting ults I would like to point out Orisa’s that does however have counterplay, making it a bit fairer, Soldier76’ which also last a quite long time, Symmetra’s wall, that takes an eternity and is as good as impossible to break, Winston’s supermonkey form also lasts very long (although it can be countered with damage). Roadhog is also quite long lasting and dominating while it lasts.
Zenyatta’s ultimate can also be argued to be a bit too long lasting, as you feel quite useless as an enemy while it is running - you can just sit there and wait it out. Ashe’s Bob takes a small eternity to execute and takes quite some effort to kill, especially if the enemy healers try to prevent it.

Ultimates with very short durations are Tracer’s which of strength is barely stronger than a regular ability (Storm Arrows are arguably as strong), Reinhardt’s that although it is very strong, is quickly over again. Reaper’s is fairly short (and painful!). DVA’s ultimate is also quite fast, and so is Pharah’s.

Compare this to for example League of Legends.
I will admit that my experience with LoL is fairly limited but I do remember that most ultimates were far from as dominating and long lasting.

  • Hecarim could make a charge that put fear on everyone right in front of him for a very limited time (1-2 seconds?), usually affecting only one, sometimes two enemies.
  • Lux would shoot a giant laser beam through the entire map. You would get a warning sound so you could react, and then it would be over in a few seconds.
  • Ahri’s Spirit Rush gives her three short-range teleports allowing her to rush an enemy. It would be over fast.
  • Jax got a passive damage bonus for some seconds.
  • Lissandra casts an AoE, that damages and slows enemies for a few seconds. Alternatively she could cast it on herself and it would work like Mei’s Ice Block (in general Mei seems to be inspired from this hero).
  • Ashe fires a giant arrow through the entire map that stuns and freezes. The closer the enemy, the shorter the duration (maybe 1 sec stun if close), meaning it is much harder to follow up if it hits further out.
  • Garen has an execute-ability, which is a single strike and then it is over.
  • Jinx has an ultimate that fires a rocket (instead of an arrow like Ashe). It has an execute-ability like Garen’s strike.

There are longer-lasting ultimates in the game, but they are not so dominating, because they usually are in an AoE that can be avoided. LoL is not so focused in one area as OW, so you can avoid an area without becoming completely irrelevant.

IMO OW could benefit from having ultimates that are shorter in execution. Right now the long duration of alot (most?) of ultimates is saturating the game to a frustrating degree, as it is often hard with standard hero abilities to do much against them.
Why not have short ultimates instead? They can still be powerful, but at least get it over with fast, so the “normal” game can continue.

2 Likes
2

Interesting.

If they ever did reduce the power of ultimates, this sounds like a much better way to do it.

Keep the potency, reduce the duration.

2 Likes
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Because of how the game is designed, ults are sometimes required to get kills. Thats just how it is with so many barriers and stacked healing. Otherwise games would be boring stalemates.

And lol @ saying roadhogs ult is dominant. Its one the the worst ults in the game and nearly every character in the roster has a way to counter it.

7 Likes
4

Sure, but why couldn’t those killing ults be fast and furious like Reaper’s and Pharah’s? Why do we need these extremely long lasting ults, like Valkyrie, Junkrat’s tire, Symmetra Wall, Ashe’s Bob etc.?
Just get it over with, so the standard game can continue.

As for Roadhog - what you say is irrelevant to the point, which is the duration of the ults. As for his ult being powerful or not is situational.

5

I actually do agree that you could remove a few seconds from Rip-Tire, maybe even tone down the range a bit… then Junkrat can get some of his normal-sized projectiles back.

6

Sym’s wall is only valuable because of its duration. You could shrink a DPS ult’s damage down to an instant burst and it would still have all its damage value. A barrier that does nothing but block damage, shrunk down to an instant duration, does literally nothing. It’s not even a very good ult as it is.

Sym does not need nerfs, stop it.

7

If I recall correctly, this wasn’t so much the case early on in the game’s lifespan. Back then ults were usually more powerful because of the surprise effect and lack of experience (everyone was new to the game).

But it looks like they’re continuously adding things that (either directly or indirectly) make ults more mandatory for a match to progress.

Yeah, if anything, that’s probably the only ult that should last longer. That ult is currently even more useless than Sombra’s EMP outside of coordinated play…

8

Bob DEFINITELY needs something changed. Either damage or his duration. Hell, half the time I don’t even know where he is until he’s rained gunfire on my from behind some wall and killed me. He’s there for what feels like an eternity and delivers damage in a manner essentially on par with tactical visor. Not to mention he has the health pool of an ulting Winston.

Junkrats tire doesn’t need a duration nerf. It’s health is almost non-existant. It can also, in my experience at least, be a bit unruly when it comes to trying to get it up walls or around certain things. For it not to be obvious, due to it being so loud, you often have to take flank routes to get any use out of the tire. So, if you shorten it’s existence you’d never be able to hit anyone with it. ESPECIALLY because you ideally want to be away from the action when you do it or risk dying or having it destroyed immediately.

Symettra’s wall is dumb. Don’t shorten it. Remove it. It doesn’t even suit her. They could have given her any light construct and they landed on a larger, timed, Reinhardt shield. They should have gave her something cool that utilized the devices she created before. Like combine the slow debuff from her turrets and the shield generator as an ultimate. Create a ‘Slow Generator’ for lack of a better name. Slow down enemies and their projectiles for a duration of time. Like reverse Lucio. IIRC, Lucio use to have a time stop concept.

9

Since you have limited League knowledge I’ll fix somethings for you
Lux’s laser doesn’t shooter through the entire map but it is long ranged though

Ahri’s Ultimate give her 3 dashes not teleports

Jax gets bonus passive damage for every third auto attack

Jinx’s Ultimate can be used as an execute with it increasing damage based in distance traveled

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Guys, Im not here to discuss individual ults or whether one thing is OP or UP or whatever.
What I want to discuss is the duration of ults.

My solution to too long ultimates would be to completely delete them and replace them with something else, if it is impossible to alter them logically.
But hey, there could be some longer lasting ults in the game, if they are just balanced well with their long duration, and if there is counterplay to them.

Orisa’s ultimate is a good example, as it can fairly easily be destroyed. That is a good balance IMO.
Moira’s ultimate is probably one of the worst sinners in this regard, because it both lasts very long and there is precious little counterplay to it, as it can not be blocked and because Moira is very hard to kill while it runs.

11

I’m confused. You said Orisa’s ult is a good example because it can be destroyed, but Moira is the worst offender… Moira’s ult can be interrupted. Which is arguably easier to do than getting through an Orisa shield and destroying her drum. Moira ults? Flashbang. Hook. Shield bash. Etc.

Her ult lasts as long as your team lets it or until it times out.

1 Like
12

My experience, however, is that Moira’s ultimate is dominating and for a long time.
Orisa’s ultimate can be fairly easily destroyed by flankers or by a meleeing Reinhardt.

Anyway, could we stay on the bigger topic of too long ultimates and what it does to the game and not devolve into a discussion on balance?
Much of what I said was mere examples that serve well as examples, whether you agree or disagree with them.

13

Some info for you since you don’t seem to know how Moira works. She is at her most vulnerable during her ult because 1) she can’t supplement her lifesteal with a healing orb, and 2) she is less mobile because she can’t Fade and her floating animation keeps her head at the same height for easy headshots. The fact that her ult has lifesteal doesn’t make much of a difference because she has lifesteal out of ult too, and her healing orb provides more self-healing anyway - which as I mentioned, can’t be used during ult. The only advantage it offers her for survivability is that the range lets her heal from farther away from the action.

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My experience is, that it is not easy to shut down Moira.

15

If anything, photon barrier needs to go back up to 20 seconds.

Seriously, has anyone seen it actually break yet?

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Literally any stun will stop her ult and even in ult she is not super hard to kill with any amount of focus fire.

17

The big problem with “normal” game flow is that nothing dies thus requiring the use of ultimates. If they lasted a little bit less Id be totally happy with this change as long as they keep the value.

I just think the normal game flow is extremely boring considering how many barriers tanks and heals currently dominate the game. For someone like me who likes to play Genji there isnt really much to kill outside his ultimate considering mediocre damage can be countered entirely by a decent healer.

Currently most dps heroes suffer from this and maybe reducing the duration of ultimaes (while keeping the potential) could help them overcome the massive tank/healing that currently dominates the meta.

18

That’s kinda over simplifying it. You can barely see through her beam and she moves really quickly while ulting. Everything you listed just worker but if the moira keeps her distance or amongst her team it’s a pretty hard ult.to stop.

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If they altered the ultimates, they could then move on to balancing the “normal” game differently. Maybe make DPS more potent so stuff would die, or tone down heals or give healers more weaknesses (flankers are kinda weak these days) so they could be killed. Healers like Brigitte and Moira are very hard to kill before the enemy team is already broken.

20

Very, very
I often have 2-3 seconds shaved off tire because of this.