I know a lot of people say countering is part of the game, and it is. But it shouldn’t be the whole win strategy, which it often is in the 5v5 tank role. For example, yesterday I played against a plyer that switched 4 times until they got the tank that worked.
All of the tanks were good into hog so the fact I was holding my own against tank counters, including orisa, seems to imply I was playing well. But then they finally went mauga and my supports didn’t counter (QP so that’s ok by me) and I was just having a hog session so I didn’t switch.
Sure, we could possibly have won if I switched Sigma, and I chose not to, and my supports chose not to switch to counter mauga, and we lost. But we 100% lost because of countering as a strategy rather than skill at playing the game (ok, you can argue countering is a skill, but that’s a pretty lame argument as we all know the counters which means picking the counter is not actually a skill).
I’d like an experiment where each tank, during team assembly, picks 2 heroes they can play in the game. When the game starts, each tank is restricted to picking only heroes EITHER of them has chosen, which means mirrors are always possible. The pool of tank heroes for each player will be the same, and will be between 2 and 4 heroes depending on choice overlap.
Do I think this is the solution to counterpicking (for those that think one is needed)? Not sure, but I think it would be interesting to try.
Limiting would kill choice and make countering easier in many cases and counter-countering impossible.
Also stop with the bad modern takes on countering. Played since launch, countering is baked-in, it’s a big feature and was sold as such. You can do it or you push through and get better.
Recently had a QP game where I got countered hard as Ashe, but I was doing pretty well against them, winning more than losing the encounters (problem was that the team wasn’t doing well - if it was ranked maybe I would’ve switched - it was QP so if the team wanted to do better I left it up to them if they wanted to team-up more).
I wouldn’t be against countering if they stopped making counters so strong against the heroes they counter.
I main hog and Ana, Zen, Mauga and, especially, Orisa are incredibly strong against him. I happily play into any of them except Orisa whose entire kit seems designed around countering hog (javelin for hook, spin for hook, gold for hook and against shotgun, and armour against shotgun).
Playing a game and doing well to have the other tank simply switch Orisa to win gets frustrating after a while. Can I learn to play around Orisa? To a degree, but because all of her kit works against hog and nothing other than whole-hog against her ult works against orisa, it’s a massive disadvantage.
Designing such hard-counter interactions is sloppy at best.
“You know that role that people already don’t want to play? Let’s hobble it more!”
Luckily geniuses like you aren’t in charge of this game. Like, I get that the above is already basically the philosophy for Overwatch, but your ideas are next-level bad.
they should rework the tanks to be less hard countered against each other, and for two tanks in each team, you will be countered twice or have to adapt more to your team, so I don’t think that works that much for me
I wouldn’t mind trying it out in a Hacked event or similar, but I suspect that of lot of these folks will simply go ahead and pick a secondary tank that counters as many of their primary’s counters as possible - and because of that, I think you’ll still see a lot of Orisas anyway. I’m not sure it’d really get the results you’re looking for since you’ll have to swap to your own secondary anyway, but you don’t want to do that (understandably).
I often switch between Tanks because I have teammates incapable doing very basic things like healing their team or going after key targets. So I try to make things easier, but they often fall at doing very basic functions that I often have to pull more weight.
Most of this is largely because of Supports, but I do get that one Widowmaker player who can’t hit for beans or follow up on my stuns or weakened targets I hit for them.
Tanks don’t hard counter each other. Never did. It’s the team that coordinates better at challenging the weaknesses of the said Tank and the lack or coordination from the opposing team to cover those weaknesses. Basically, it’s the team being to reliant on their Tank to do all the work.
No. You only need your back up anyways. For instance, I am in a Hog mood? I can simply run Hog and Zarya. It solves nothing except for thoughtless swaps that should NEVER win regardless. If a random Mauga beats your team, your team deserved to lose. Sucks when YOU deserve to win. But it is a team based game.
Hog is just a bad hero. As in he still has loads of fundamental flaws that leaves his team and him self at a major disadvantage.
Hog is not the standard.
Ana/Zen: Are power houses managed by the fact they can’t easily reposition. Meaning by the design they are made to have a large weakness which can be exploited by anyone effectively, that requires them to perform mechanically or die. And a lot less about counters specifically, because a good zen or ana can often drop flankers or flies before they have a chance to do things. Be it have limited ability to manage teams rushing/diving them as a group.
Mauga: Does have counters, be it that you can play around them via smart use of stomp and positioning. And do to having a mobility tool, you can just… cycle out of the fight for a second or heal up and push back in at a different angle when say sigma’s grasp drops or your no longer antied.
That aside you can learn a matchup, even if that matchup isn’t in your favor there are ways to play around them. A rien can stall out an orisa’s fortify with barrier and just shatter her team, or time so you can just pin her the second it wears off.