Now it requires coordination in a team game. Wow, shocker.
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That is how the META works. A group of heroes get popular and phaze out the others. I donāt like that either, but that is how it works. Besides, Tracer did the same exact thing when she was being played as a pillar of Dive. Now, when the shoe is on the other foot, it is suddenly a crime against humanity.
Tell me, what do you make of someone with an effective range of 11m waltzing into the range of a hero with an effective range of 6m? In fact, what do you make of someone who stands in the open against a Widowmaker?
Keyword is ācan.ā Not the case here.
and people are tired of only one comp being viable. before atleast on certain maps other comps were viable. now GOATS is the only viable thing.
out of position.
your blanket statement calls x individual stupid. it is infact name calling.
Remind me of how many different comps saw comparable use around during the era of Dive.
Which is a stupid place to be.
It is observation. Take your falsehoods somewhere else.
health comps with old torb and sym saw a lot of play through every elo in dive era on defense
Death ball was very strong on hybrid maps such as kings row and eichenwalde
Pirate ship on payload maps
then dive filled in for maps where high ground needed to be contested.
It always has, yet people ask for nerfs. Shocker.
When will peoples stop with this? Even the PROS explain that with Brigitteās kit, playing Tracer into her is borderline throwing, even in high ranks.
The solution to that is simple: donāt play Tracer. If you are incapable of staying outside of her 6m range as a character with a range of 11m, then you should stop playing that hero and play one that will make life hard for Brigitte in turn. However, the PROS donāt want to adjust; they simply must play Tracer all the time, every time. Any hero that gets in the way of that (i.e Sombra, Brigitte) is the spawn of Satan.
Ok. Now what is the ratio of usage? Just because there are several combinations, doesnāt mean they were all used. The only time I saw pirate ship was on Junkertown. Deathball only comprises two maps in your example. Even then, Dive was played on latter map as well. The OWL finals is proof of that.
There is a reason the response to Dive was almost always Dive, as the other options were lackluster.
alright and now, where those comps were used before, goats is used EVERYWHERE now.
That is false. Dive is still used a fair amount. In fact, with the release of Wrecking Ball, an unholy combination of the two now exists.
That aside, you are keen on putting all the blame on Brigitte for GOATs existing when that is far from the truth. The problem with GOATS is not brigitte, but the tanks and how hard they are to kill. Now, a tank being hard to kill is to be expected based on the class name alone, but it is even harder now since the tank busters have been continually nerfed. Hanzo has been nerfed from his reworkās initial strength. Reaper has gotten buffs, but he is only one hero; he was never meant to take on a whole group of them. It is the same with Mei. Mei can handle one tank, but not a whole group. The only hero that could was Bastion, until they took away his ability to his critically. Now, divebombing him is a no-brainer for a team that works together.
Brigitte did not invent the concept of stacking tanks. Players were doing that way before she came along. GOATS is just the third combination centered around the tanks doing the job normally reserved for damage heroes, namely Reinhardt. In fact, GOATs was invented as a means of enabling the titular teamās Reinhardt player to the fullest. Look back and you will see. Before it, there was Triple Tank and Quadruple Tank/Slambulance. The heroes used as pillars in the Triple Tank and Quadruple tank lineups are nearly a complete match with the ones used in GOATs. Rein, Zarya, DVA, Lucio, the strongest healer at the time (moira, in the case of quad tank and goats). Now, I am not saying that they are individually overpowered, but their synergy is highly problematic, and itās always the same problems. Lucio removes their weakness of no mobility, DVA holds the high ground and blocks the things Reinhardt canāt (and vice-versa), Zarya cleanses crowd control and becomes a damage hero in her own right in short order, and Rein deals damage unaffected by barriers, and Moira keeps them all healed at the same time, while contributing to dealing damage while ignoring barriers. Brigitte, being half tank, just makes it another glorified Slambulance with a bit more utility and group healing in place of Roadhog.
The only way to fight such a combination is to stay out of their face. That has led to a rise in Doomfist. Doomfist is one of the few heroes that can reduce their numbers without having to fight their way through three beefy targets. He does this by target the supports instead, making the tanks lose by attrition. Same with Pharah and Widowmaker. Junkrat sees use here as well not for that reason, but due to his fast charging ultimate can potentially wipe them all out. It helps that the GOATs lineup bleeds ultimate charge. Ana gets a special mention here because of Bionade, but she gets shut down hard by DVA and Zarya. There needs to be either more heroes like them, or more heroes that, with their powers combined, can take on a group of tanks in CQC so they can contest the objective without having to mirror the enemy team. Right now, there are none. Or rather, not enough. That is why GOATs is seeing so much use. Not Brigitte.
if this is the case then you arenāt playing at high ranks, not that im trying to rank shame, but META is only relevant at high ranks.
goats can exist because brig allows you to replace dps with her because she has enough damage to supplement. Tank heavy comps are not the same as goats.
the common trait is that brig renders the heros useless, and does enough damage to take their spot.
stacking tanks isnāt goats.
Goats is 3 supports 3 tanks. anything else is not goats.
so yes she is responsible for goats.
no they arenāt. old triple tank had ANA as a staple hero and was relevant because of the insane sustain they had, and ran soldier because the entire comp was based around breaking riens shield and getting a good hook with roadhog, aside from having 3 tanks the triple tank comp which focuses on breaking a shield and getting a hook, and the GOATS comp which focuses on stacking health and walking over the enemy together have NOTHING in common.
doomfist is only strong on ladder play in team environments, Doomfist is still destroyed by goats just like everything else.
anas entire role in goats is to anti nade the enemy making brig killable, and the enemy unhealable, if she is ran in goats, which generally she isnāt. You run moira for the ability to heal all the tanks at once.
You mean that area of the playerbase where Dive and other traditional 2-2-2 compositions are still see regular use?
GOATS exists because there is a severe lack of tank-busters. Also, the entire reason GOATs exist is to pour all your resources on the tanks instead of splitting them between tanks, damage dealers, and supports (namely Reinhardt, since this was invented as a way to support the GOATS Reinhardt player). In what way is that different from Triple and Quad tank?
No, Lucio renders them useless by giving them less time to chip away at them, much like he always has when is on a team. Hence his inclusion in the original incarnation of Dive. You are right about Brigitte though. 155 damage every seven seconds is OPAF.
The purpose of GOATS is centered around the Tanks being the primary damage dealers while being nigh unkillable. That concept is nothing new.
so no she is not resposible for goats.
So youāre telling that a composition consisting of using heroes with the highest HP pools with good sustain and a composition consisting of the using heroes with the highest HP pools with good sustain have nothing in common?
No, Doomfist gets destroyed by teamwork. Heād get destroyed no matter the composition if people actually peel.
I am fully aware that. I even alluded to that. In what way does your comment invalidate my claim of DVA and Zarya shutting down her attempts to counter GOATS?
Those deletebrig guys got what they wanted and they put Sombra on a hit list alongside Doomfist.
Their plan is to flood Blizzard with complaints until they cave.
Blizzard just gave into a toxicity campaign by openly biased people, no hero is safe after something like that.
They set the precedent that any hero can be literally gutted with basically no real compensation because of whining by YouTubers, who are not game designers.
goats exist because of the support powercreep making stacking health the optimal way to play this game
neither reapr nor hanzo do āchip damageā they do burst damage. one headshot from hanzo is enough to kill one of the supports outside of brig.
she made it possible to do without any dps. she is responsible for goats because she took away the need for even 1 dps.
no I told you one is about breaking shield and getting a good hook the other is about walking over the enemy. the use of multiple tanks and high sustain is the only thing they have in common the win conditions of the comps, and the implementation of them is entirely different one wants to sit back break shield and get picks, the other wants to throw its health at you.
meaning he would be destroyed by goats.
No. I literally told you the reason GOATS was invented (and why it is so pervasive) and you keep trying to dance around it with your own theories.
Your comment has what to do with the response it is aimed at? Stop changing the subject.
Remind me again of what the Slambulance combination consists of. Also remind me of how much DPS she outputs.
Breaking shields is the standard gameplan of any team with a Roadhog on it. That wasnāt unique to Triple Tank. Plus, variations without Roadhog existed, so that clearly wasnāt the goal. The goal was to let the tanks do the heavy lifting. That was the goal back then, and that is definitely the goal now in GOATS.
That totally explains why he is seeing more use. I donāt even know why you wrote since I wrote exactly that, only there was more to that sentence that you left out in your attempt at cherry-picking.
the ideas you presented were wrong. goats is not tank stacking. goats is 3 supports 3 tanks. there is no form of goats without brig, because you donāt have enough damage then.
im not changing the subject, im telling you you are wrong because hanzo and reaper donāt do chip damage.
slambulance is 4 tanks 2 supports. slambulance is also not goats you know the thing we are talking about.
for someone who accuses others of changing the subject you do it a lot.
this has nothing to do with what makes goats and triple tank.
those variations where not the correct way to run the comp.
no the goal was to break shield and get a hook to get a kill off.
that is not the goal of goats. the goal of goats is to take space, and kill anything that doesnāt give it to you, thatās why when you see goats you back up.
the point like is (as we come full circle) is doomfist is only good in unorganized play, and GOATS dominates everywhere in organized play, which I forced you to admit
You stated:
and I replied:
forcing you to reply:
meaning in a team environment doomfist is not strong because he is good against goats, but because of lack of coordination. which was my entire point of doomfist being decent had nothing to do with goats.
im not cherry picking. im forcing you to admit that goats in team play is more oppressive and dominant than anything we have faced and doomfist rising in power has nothing to do with goats.
Sombraās always been on a hit-list so eh.
Honestly, I think people are giving the #DeleteBrig extremists a bit too much credit myself. It was already a pretty damn widespread view that she was highly problematic and the World Cup data kinda backed that view up.
Either way, even if it turns out these nerfs are too far (personally I expect sheāll still be decent regardless), Iām of the opinion Blizzard went in the most fair direction they possibly could short of an actual rework. Focusing her power into a few strengths, will be healthier and make balancing her (and that includes buffing if it proves necessary) much easier in the future.
Just 4? Why not make it 5?
Add more spread to her Gun while we are at it. lol!
I disagree. The one thing people wanted her to do was counter flankers. They didnāt want her countering tanks, but especially they didnāt want her countering Reinhardt.
That could have been solved in a way that did not completely destroy her identity and put the support class back in a place where the entire thing is countered by a single hero.
The diversity that not being true added for dps was better for the game. And there were a lot of ways they could have nerfed her sustain to make GOATs less powerful.
Beyond that, people think they want her healing buffed. That would actually kill a lot of heroes, especially repair pack.
Healing buffs screw over those other heroes a lot more than a stun they could avoid.
Everyone was so sure about Mercy not falling until Rez was destroyed too, but her healing nerf is what did it.
Healing is tolerated by more people and feels less oppressive, but more healing makes this game worse not better. And that seems to be the direction they are gonna take her.