I think the community needs to get together and form a reasonable definition of what the word “toxic” entails.
As of late, it has been occurring to to me that the word “toxic” is a meme for “i don’t like what i’m seeing.”
In my opinion, toxic is:
Intentional, directed strife towards a person, group of people, or ideology.
Example 1: Player A kills player B. Player A types in chat "sit. git gud."
This is not toxic. This could be friendly banter between friends. This could be player A trying to make a light-hearted joke but not really understanding social dynamics. People often refer to this as ‘toxic’ because, in their minds, player A is taunting player B.
Example 2: Player A kills player B. Player A types in chat "you suck. kys"
This is toxic. This is a direct insult. Even if the two players are friends, it crosses the line into “toxic” because of the KYS.
Example 3: Player A kills player B. Player C and player B are on the same team. Player C says in chat "Player B, why the f*** do you keep f***** dying so much omfg???!?!"
This is not toxic. This is tilt. This is a frustrated player speaking with their frustration. This could easily be condensed into "Hey player b, do you need support? Player A keeps killing you and I want to help."
Players will still see this as toxic though. They will see the tilt in player C and do the “I don’t like what you’re doing. I don’t like what you said. you are toxic” meme.
TL;Dr
Toxic =/= Tilt
But try not to do either because tilting can cause toxicity.
fml this is what i get for trying to be mature about something on the internet hahaha
i’m going to start using “toxic” as a filler word now.
“brah that solo ult was so toxic!!!”
“dude that play was so toxic!!!”
“oh man you got pinned around a corner? that’s toxic.”
I like where your head’s at, it’s just that talking about it on the forums isn’t going to make it go away
I feel that actual toxicity in Overwatch is a result of the way the game is designed, marketed and run. It’s the community’s response to these things. As much as we’d like for it to just be people being jerks, I don’t think that’s the case. People aren’t ever just jerks for no reason. When you’re on the receiving end of the jerk’s bs, it’s often hard to see that.
So either Overwatch is a game that attracts jerks, or it’s a game that creates them.
Edit: On the other hand, some people are perceived as toxic when they’re not meaning to be. If I use the kind of banter that I did in some other games I’ve played, people in Overwatch would call me toxic and report me to hell and back. I see things in games all the time that I don’t think are toxic, but someone else in the game does.
Personally, I think it’s sad that we’ve reached a point where people are so sensitive and ready to pull the trigger on someone that we can’t even have a bit of competitive banter out of fear of being branded as toxic and reported.
This is why I provided the lame examples lol.
There have been games where I have been called toxic and a “whiny b*****” for asking my team why we are losing fights after I get 3 solo kills.
There have also been games where I have been told to shut up because I shot call too much. Other players on my team then lash out at the player telling me to shut up, calling him/her toxic. It could have been that my mic volume was too loud and thats why he said shut up.
And you guys are coming up with great responses. The forums just told me I’ve given out so many likes that I’m almost out of likes for the day lol
You know that one guy Gerald of Rivia from the Witcher series? That guy drinks all sorts of chemical potions and boy does he get toxic! Sometimes he fills up with so much toxicity that he LITERALLY DIES!!!
I would define toxicity as speaking disrespectfully to other players. This doesn’t mean that nobody can banter or joke, but if it’s rude and at the expense of another player (especially a stranger), it’s toxic.
This is not, like, mega-toxic, but I would say this is still usually toxic. Rubbing someone’s face in getting defeated or outplayed doesn’t generally make them feel good. Like, yeah dude, I know you just killed me. There’s room for friendly ribbing, like, “Yoink” “Surprise” “oh hai” etc. “Git gud” is when you’re starting to stray into unnecessary meanness–that’s moving from spiking the football and being pleased with yourself to making a jab at the other person’s skill.
If you’re razzing a friend, fine, whatever, you two can be at each other’s throats all in good fun and not have any hard feelings over it. But if it’s a stranger, you don’t have the relational context. Like, if I stomped my brother at a game, I could greet him, “Hey loser,” and he’d shoot me a look and we’d laugh. If I walk up to a stranger on the street and say, “Hey loser,” they’re not going to take it as kindly, because who do I think I am and why do I think it’s okay to talk to them that way?
So don’t razz strangers. It’s rude.
I wouldn’t report someone over that, but yeah, I’d say it’s toxic.
I agree that this is toxic, but I would say it starts out toxic with the “You suck” and amps up to report-worthy because of the second part.
This is someone being toxic because they are tilted. It is possible to be head-spinningly frustrated by how the game is going and still not take it out on your teammates. If you keep your rage to yourself and your muted microphone, fair enough. By the time you are yelling at a teammate (in comms or in text), you are being toxic, because you are offloading your anger onto another person.
No, it really can’t. If that’s what you mean, that’s what you need to say. “Do you need help with that Tracer?” = not toxic. “Hey team, that Genji is eating our supports alive, remember to peel for them” = not toxic. “OMG WHY ARE YOU DYING” is at least borderline toxic, and it’s definitely toxic by the time you’re cussing out the person for dying so much.
That is not, “I don’t like what you’re doing”; that is, “You are taking out your frustration on us and that’s really rude, so knock it off.”
You can get tilted without getting toxic, that’s true. But if you are swearing at your team, blaming them, telling them unhelpful things like, “Stop dying” or “kill the enemy” (note: “Focus that target” is fine shot calling, “OMG just kill something already” is not), then yes, you are being toxic.
People can’t read your mind to discern if you are swearing at them because you are tilted or swearing at them because you’re a bully who is trying to make them ragequit. And regardless, the problem is not whether or not they’ve recognized your tilt, but whether or not you are swearing at them and blaming them.
You don’t need to be formal and proper and customer-service-level polite with the people you play with, but you should have a baseline of treating people with civility. And if you are so mad you literally can’t control what you say, then it’s time to walk away from the game for a minute until you cool off (or at least remove yourself from chat/comms).
[Edited so as not to double post]
The dude yelling at you = definitely toxic. Picking Hanzo = not toxic.
I very distinctly differentiate “toxic” and “annoying” from each other
If someone is outright fun to play with, or I have a good synergy with them I use prefer this player.
Is someone is annoying but not a rulebreaker I leave them be
If someone is rulebreaking, or rule ignoring (I e, poor teamwork is partly labeled as constant negative communication towards teammates) I report them.
A lot of people say prefer this player does nothing, and I can’t really confirm it has. but ive preferred at least 200 players over time and at this point it’s second nature. there’s no reason to not use it. I’d “prefer” to play with the reinhardt who knows the difference between overextending and just extending then to play with the Hanzo who keeps saying “whys no one shooting that ++++ing pharah? shoot the ++++ing pharah!!!” and meanwhile will not switch off of hanzo, to say, a hitscan hero to shoot the pharah
Yeah you have a point. I’m still in “streamer mode” where im used to always seeing people play with the same people and exchanging banter like this, BECAUSE they know eachother and they know its not hostile.
you do have a point though. the ‘git gud’ comment can be interprited as toxic, but the entire point of the thread was to point out that sometimes, a player just has bad social habits and they don’t realize that it is rude to say that.
I literally made this thread for myself. I’ve never really had friends and I’ve always had issues when it comes to proper communication with other people. A lot of the things I say can and have been taken as hostile or toxic, while I thought I was being friendly.
It’s taken me a long time to learn to literally just keep my mouth shut and only say positive things, but SOMEBODY has to stick up for the people who don’t know better.
There’s an idiot, and then there’s a jerk. They aren’t the same.
I agree that there’s a difference in the sense that, if someone who doesn’t know better gets taught better, they go, “Oh man, I’m sorry, I’ll try to stop.” Someone who is just a jerk will double down and get mad at you for pointing out that they’re being rude.
But if two people in two different matches say, “lul loser, git gud”, one under the mistaken notion that it would be funny and playful, and one because they enjoy reveling in the misery of others–the person on the receiving end of the comment is impacted just the same either way.
“Toxic” doesn’t need to mean “Unforgivable evil who should be immediately banned”. It just means it’s dragging down the atmosphere of the game. Someone can be toxic without realizing it, and that doesn’t make them a terrible person, but it does mean they need to learn how to do better.
Like, if we compare it to substances, alcohol is toxic. But humans can consume limited amounts of it for fun and survive it just fine. Arsenic is also toxic. Humans do not fare nearly as well with even small amounts of it. Just because arsenic is worse than alcohol doesn’t mean that alcohol is not really toxic after all.
“Git gud” is pretty lightweight in terms of toxicity, but it’s still rude. I would not report someone for it, but I might ask them to chill out.
Gloating is unsportsmanlike behavior and therefore not okay.
Badmouthing you teammates (even if they objectively do not pull their weight) does not facilitate an environment in which people can do their best.
And as soon as you insult someone you are stepping out of line.
Try to be your best when interacting with others especially on your team.
Guys… the real problem here is how easily people get offended in todays world.
If anyone here has ever played sport at a resonably high level you would know that trash talking and in general this type of thing while in competition is NORMAL and part of the game.
STOP getting offended by what people are saying… and I am more referring to what people on your own team say. I have have been called toxic and heard people call others on my team toxic for simple asking for a change in current lineup or strategy because it was not working…
EXAMPLE*
DPS insta locked into Tracer/Genji
Heals then pick Zen/Moira
Tanks then perceed to wait and pick REIN/Orisa (with 0 communication)
One of the non tanks mentions it may be a good idea to run more dive tanks since the rest of the lineup is set up for dive… Gives example Zarya/dva | Dva/ Monkey | Zarya/Monkey
The person then says ok well we will have a real hard time winning if we dont swap.