Call me crazy but I’m satisfied with where TTK is now. Why should it change? OW2 will reduce the overall damage output per team, and will offset that by nerfing mitigation abilities and/or healing.
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outside of obnoxious free oneshots like Flashfan and Hook Combo get nerfed (I’m fine with widow who actually takes some skill), yeah TTK is good atm
Discord can be rough against tanks but that’s more the other support who’s keeping Zen alive through any dive attempt rather than Zen actually being too good.
As a business, surley they would go with whatever is the most popular for the majority of gamers?
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As you climb, people tend to focus fire. Rein, if he even flashes his shield for one second, could be instantly killed before his shield goes back up.
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Honestly damage doesn’t really have to be tweeked, or at least much in the case for OW2. As ttk at least in regards to the duels between players is more or less untouched. If not improved for tanks, as fights in general in OW2 appear to much more spread out across the point. More so focused down one lane, which is required for teams not to be punished by the wealth of large AOE primaries/utilities/ and ults in the game.
Like one zarya isn’t going to save your team from a d.va bomb, and a rien isn’t going to be able to do much for a tracer bomb.
As such it’s better some part of the team to be actively holding if not pushing a different angle from the tank to prevent that d.va bomb wipe/ tracer pulse flank.
And in turn it’s going to reduce the viable amount of damage that can push down on single target. And with the reduction of stuns in the game on the dps and support side of things, it ultimately means their is a lot more room for tanks to do what they do without the “rien turning the corner and being confronted with 1000+dps at one time”
the likes of widow and flankers specifically would need some tunning down, much in the same way ana was handled. But not to the extreme people might think do to the change in game play flow.
Like damage is easier to apply, yet that is a two way street. As the attacker is just as vulnerable to being picked, as the thing their trying to pick.
The actual TTK for each individual hero is mostly the same, or for many supports has been adjusted in the favor them doing more damage to end the fight early. Then for them to simply out sustain the fight via cooldowns, or their role passive.
As in the support role is much more in tuned with zen and lucio, then it is with say the current mercy.
Which of course becomes a much more unqiue playstyle then most of the other supports.
If we go 5v5 you don’t have a choice. 
For my paladins players. Yall see they got rid of cauterize?
I’m honestly not surprised to see so many people are ok with how the ttk is in the game currently. After all, the majority of players are queueing for dps.
But I’d once again like to bring out that Overwatch has had the concept of Tanks since release. Even in it’s free-to-choose era, Reinhardt’s goal as a hero was to use his shield to protect his allies from damage and be a beefy, durable frontline for his team. Over time however, with damage creep, Reinhardt’s gameplay (compared to the fantasy you want to fulfill playing Rein) has all but lost. Stepping out of cover for half a second can get you killed almost instantly. This goes for more than just Reinhardt obviously.
Ttk in the game is not fine as it is. They need to find a good balance that allows all roles to find a comfortable spot in the game. And we’re simply not there yet.
That is ideally where I’d start. I’d definitely prefer to see changes to Widow, Hanzo, Cassidy, and of course Hog.
check this out:
Fair point, I actually hadn’t thought too much about that fact. However there are still a select few heroes that can make tanking miserable all by themselves. And I’d still prefer to see such heroes receive some changes because of their innate abilities.
Definitely an interesting idea. Btw, would you want headshots removed from projectiles? or just in general?
Also, I came up with a Pharah Rework Idea that I hoped would solve some of what makes her annoying. But this^ is also an interesting idea.
I feel like Roadhog flying around the place by hooking things would seem… uncharacteristic. But it is definitely something to consider simply in terms of balancing. And I’ve seen many others suggest that he be able to pull allies to him as a sort of protective teamplay ability. Just to be clear, you do intend to remove the hook’s ability to pull enemies towards him?
What do you mean by equal? Would everyone have the same amount of damage? And fire rate I suppose?
I couldn’t completely agree with that if so. But I do think primary fires overall should be tuned down, it just allows for more space to use abilities, and have the game feel like an actual hero shooter. My opinion.
Heroes like Hanzo, and Widow, are pretty much entirely defined by how much damage they can do with primary fire, which I think has caused problems. So do we just change the heroes silhouette entirely? New kit, and possibly weapons/primary fire so that they can remain fun heroes to play, while not being so oppressive? Or do we just nerf their damage, in which case they (debatably) become boring as they are pretty much just spamming left click damage trying to whittle down an enemy’s health? And I did read this bit:
It honestly just felt noninteractive and boring for the dps player I suppose. But it’s definitely something to look at simply for balancing.
Yeah, I mentioned how a lot of abilities basically allow some heroes to simply left-click better. And because of that a lot of heroes end up having strong left-clicks since in the end, that’s what they need to remain relevant, none of their other abilities allow for any real oppression or pressure without their left-click involved. So you assign new abilities, that do more than just enable the high ttk in the game, and basically let them do more than simply left click, while remaining effective and useful.
Something like that, thoughts are getting lost in translation I think. I need to sleep.
Something else I just thought of. If you can’t kill targets quickly enough, sustain comps very easily become meta, and very few people would admit to liking GOATS and double shield.
I have always gotten the sense that the devs want the TTK to be shorter.
Tanks are more DPS focused, only one tank roll (fewer shields on the field) DPS will have a passive that makes them move faster, maps are smaller pushing people closer together and more paths to flank…that kind of thing.
We’ll find out though. No way to tell really until we play a bit of it.
That said, I hope the TTK stays where it’s at. If it feels like a DPS-fest-spawn-simulator I won’t be playing it.
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bro just linking your own threads isn’t going to convince anyone of your “argument” for extreme GOATs for OW2.
No one liked GOATs, and that was the “highest” TTK that OW has ever seen. Literally created role queue to avoid it.
They are going to lower TTK, and that’s all to it. I’m all here for it.
I read the title and thought you meant the voiceline reaper sometimes says before a match starts lol
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Completely. The concept doesn’t make sense. While a smaller target is harder to hit, it also takes more trials to understand how accurate you were. Couple that with the fact that it’s on the top of the hitbox, so you miss shots by being 1mm to high, not not for being 1mm too low, and you have a consistency-nightmare.
I do intend that, yes. A single role should be responsible for setting-up kills, sure, the Tanks could do this, but it’d be rather strange because it’d shove Supports out of a lot of value. I think the healthiest way would be ‘Tanks protect, Supports enable, Damage secures’. A loop of ‘clear-enable-execute’.
Same-value. Mirrored DPS and capabilities. Setting-up a ‘long-range’ and ‘short-range’ sub-categories is acceptable and probably required. The issue with having unique balance per hero is that it adds a needless variable to balance to no real benefit.
I don’t mean ‘same firerate’, but just the same output. This would make it far easier to balance abilities and control encounters, from a dev-perspective.
Honestly, yeah. There’s a lot of work that’s needed. This should have been done pre-alpha.
Nerf the DPS, but buff the abilities. This also goes for healing and shields, too, since they would also need adjusting. Some primaries will need to be completely changed, like Junkrat.
Exactly. It feels like game-devs have become too focused on the little number that represents health instead of seeing interactions as events. Trying to base it on arbitrary numbers is fiddly, it’s far better to think about it as ‘stun+damage=kill’ ‘stun+cleanse+damage=no kill’ ‘damage+damage=kill’, because that lets you plan encounters instead of just number-fiddling.
this is how you make Overwatch into Paladins. No. We need to be less reliant on abilities like Flashbang and Hook, not more.
I don’t recall promoting Goat’s in any way. Also, you said you were fine with how Widow is able to OHK, because of the amount of skill she takes. I’m simply showing you how the community feels about that.
Specifically, “Just because someone takes a considerable lot of skill and time to master and use effectively, does not mean they should be able to dominate on levels that other players cannot achieve with other heroes.” Along that line of thought. The overall consensus that I got from that thread that you apparently didn’t read (fair enough), was that people disagree with that… design.
TLDR: I was simply showing you how I and others felt about heroes with such potential like Widow, and why she should not be as she currently is.
You aren’t, but you are promoting increasing the time to kill. Me talking about GOATs was pointing out when TTK was at it’s highest and literally no one (not even the folks that hate the current TTK) liked GOATs.
I haven’t seen nearly anyone complain about widow since 175 health. She’s actually one of the weakest characters in the game rn. Hanzo literally is her but better.
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Which is weird to me. The higher TTK is one of the things tha makes OW unique in my eyes. I really don’t want the game to become more like CoD or CS:GO where nothing matters in an engagement besides who sees the enemy first. That’s fun for a minute but there’s a reason I haven’t played 500 hours of any CoD or CS:GO.
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decreasing TTK doesn’t mean making the game into a COD clone. It’s possible to both decrease TTK as well as preserve the almost MOBA-esque abilities currently in Overwatch. The way to do this is make more instant/fast acting abilities, think of like, an ability that heals 80 damage instantly instead of a healing stream that heals for 80 hps.
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Tough. If you want that, go play CoD. Overwatch is defined by its abilities, if you don’t like them, then you don’t like the game. The gaming industry is already over-saturated with boring ‘loadout’ games. And that’s not even mentioning that mechanical aim is a terrible way of showing skill in the format that Overwatch has chosen.
Also, Paladins is not what that is, at all. Go and play it.
No, it isn’t. The whole point of a MOBA is concatenate-choices, if you reduce TTK, you don’t get MOBA, you get CoD, where “abilities” are just a different flavour of ‘gun’ and anything creative is forced into obsolescence.
GOATS or something like it is what you’ll get. Are you just naive or do you really just want to secretly sabotage the game?
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I have. A lot. I have almost 2k hours in Paladins.
100% the TTK is as high if not higher than GOATs when you play with good healers/tanks.
If you had read my whole post, you’d see that this isn’t true, but it’s fine, this forum is full of screaming 3 year olds who don’t know what they actually want.
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